"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Is Health Care Reform a Moral Imperative?

Tuesday, August 18, 2009

Is Health Care Reform a Moral Imperative?

Health-care reform is an economic, political and medical issue. Evangelical leader Jim Wallis says it's also a "deeply theological issue, a Biblical issue and a moral issue." Do you agree? Why or why not?

Three Moral Issues of Health Care, by Jim Wallis

With an issue like health, deeply personal but of great public concern, I believe that the faith community has a unique and important role to play. That is, to define and raise the moral issues that lay just beneath the policy debate. There will be a lot of heat, maybe even a few fires, over the weeds of the policy, and the faith community has the opportunity to remind our political and national leaders about why these issues are so important — why they speak to our values.

There are, I believe, three fundamental moral issues that the faith community can focus on and call our political leaders back to, lest they forget. They are: the truth, full access, and cost.


  1. Did anyone hear B.Hussein Obama's comments on Fed-X vs.the government run postal service? That said more then any policy speach he could ever give!(if it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny)

    People need to stop looking to the government for handouts, to solve their problems. Why? The government doesn't know how to run much of anything without so much red tape and pork it makes you regurgitate. Never mind takeing on something as important as the health of my children!

    I don't want anyone directing WHEN and WHERE and HOW I can get tests done, medication or surgury.

    Virtually every ER in the country has charity or finacial help available. Health care is already a faith issue. I have seen collections at the ALC for those in need bring in thousands and thousands in one swoop.

    I have a uncle with colon cancer and NO insurance. Most Dr.'s have waived or reduced their fees to almost nothing. The Chemo is provided at no charge by the drug company. We really are a very caring nation. We don't need the government taking control of our any more parts of our life.

  2. I hate to break it to you, P.S., but you already have someonetelling you HOW and WHERE and WHEN you can get medical tests done, medication, and surgery. Hello? Anyone home? It's your private managed health care program, if you're lucky enough to have an employer who covers you. Part of the reason why it costs so much is because of the HUGE salaries administrators, CEOs,and other medical carpetbaggers glean from our hard-earned money. They're also spending some of your hard-earned money on lobbyists to brainwash poor schmucks like you to make sure the gravy-train never ends for them.

    A single payer works very well. I don't know if you know this, but I have a Swedish husband. So I know a little about how it actually works, and its quite slick. His family has never really had to wait much for anything. They have arguably the best system in the world. And no, its not exactly free, they have co-pays, especially for dental, and they're someone higher than my really awesome State of Minnesota coverage. And what? They have death panels to cut off the week? Okay, just talk to his 75 year old mother who just had major heart surgery.

    --Stranger in a Strange Land

  3. I don't expect that we'll agree on specific remedies or reforms, but the reason I started this discussion is because I'm interested in exploring whether people feel it's a moral issue.

    It's estimated that 18,000 people in the U.S. died last year that would have lived had they had access to basic health insurance.

    The article I posted links to a "Health Care Toolkit" PDF that had the following food for thought:

    A Values-Based, Common-Sense Approach to Health-Care Reform

    WHILE ALL PEOPLE of faith will never agree on every aspect of health-care reform, it is important that our voices be heard in ways that will truly impact the
    end result. Below are areas on which there is broad agreement within the faith community:

    Affordability: Health care must be affordable for everyone. This means reform must include an Affordability Standard that places limits on out-of-pocket expenses in proportion to income and guarantees comprehensive benefits
    sufficient to maintain and promote good health.

    Coverage: Health-care reform must cover all Americans.

    Stewardship: The cost of health-care reform must be broadly shared and placed on a sustainable foundation.

    Protecting the poor: Lower-income children and families must be rotected by strengthening Medicaid and protecting preventative and diagnostic benefits that keep children healthy.

    Religious liberty: Health-care reform legislation must respect religious liberty and the values of health-care providers.

  4. Edmonton Journal, Canada 8/19

    "The vast majority of Canadian doctors believe there is an urgent need to fix Canada's health-care system," outgoing association president Robert Ouellet told a news conference at the organization's annual convention here. "The physicians of Canada are serving notice that we are tired of the dogmatic, ineffective and faux public-private debate continually derailing any and all attempts to build a health-care system that serves patients."


    there are limits. Without an endless budget, the N.H.S. does have to ration care, by deciding, for instance, whether drugs that might add a few months to the life of a terminal cancer patient are worth the money.

    Its hospitals are not always clean. It is bureaucratic. Its doctors and nurses are overworked. Patients sometimes are treated as if they were supplicants rather than consumers. Women in labor are advised to bring their own infant’s diapers and their own cleaning products to the hospital. Sick people routinely have to wait for tests or for treatment.

    Limited in what treatments they can offer, doctors sometimes fail to advise patients of every option available — or every possible complication.

    Told my husband needed a sophisticated blood test from a particular doctor, I telephoned her office, only to be told there was a four-month wait.

    “But I’m a private patient,” I said.

    “Then we can see you tomorrow,” the secretary said.

    And so it went. When it came time for my husband to undergo physical rehabilitation, I went to look at the facility offered by the N.H.S. The treatment was first rate, I was told, but the building was dismal: grim, dusty, hot, understaffed, housing 8 to 10 elderly men per ward. The food was inedible. The place reeked of desperation and despair.

    Then I toured the other option, a private rehabilitation hospital with air-conditioned rooms, private bathrooms and cable televisions, a state-of-the-art gym, passably tasty food and cheery nurses who made a cup of cocoa for my husband every night before bed.


    Thanks for calling me a poor schmuck.

    I have excellent insurance that allows ME to decide when, where and how. I have NEVER been declined anything I needed or requested.

    For those without insurance there are many more viable options then obama care.

    Perhaps you are the poor schmuck wanting a government gravy train.

    You can't ignore the other side (see articles above) and live in a land of fluff.

  6. P.S.

    I don't need a government gravy train. Did you read my post? I already have excellent insurance. Better than yours, I'd make any bet. I have never been turned down for anything I or my family needed either. You see, sweetheart, we're lucky. Not everyone isn't.

    But let's say I didn't. What would I rather have? Government insurance, like the example above, or nothing. Let me see. I'd take the government insurance.

    You see, my dear, health care is already being rationed. The people who go without any insurance--they're the ones who are being rationed. We're okay, and we don't need to care about anyone else, but I do, even if you don't.

    So yes, Tomte, health care is a moral issue. It's about loving your neighbor, which is Biblical, right?

    --Stranger in an Insane Land

  7. I kind of figured this would get inflammatory quickly!

    I've lived in the UK as well, and agree with P.S. that NHS patients do not get seen with the alacrity that "private insurance" patients are. However, while the system there is far from perfect, it is at least a rudimentary system, and yes, it does provide basic health care, cradle to grave. Yes, it is paid for by high taxes, which I hate as much as anyone.

    That said, let's get back to the moral issue here. I believe very skeptically in giving "entitlements" to people, but I also believe firmly that food, shelter, healthcare, and dignity should be beyond question. If it takes higher taxes to give those basic necessities to everyone, then so be it. I will unquestioningly suck up my share to pay for them.

    Jesus said that whatsoever we did to the least of his brethren, that we also did for him. How can we as God fearing people, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or anything else refuse to provide this?

    P.S., you are indeed lucky to have great insurance. So am I. However there are a lot of folks who do not, and there is not one damn thing they can do about it! Is "Obamacare" the best answer? I dunno. Probably not and most likely not, but at least the discussion has been engaged. We must do this because it is the right thing to do.

    Free and Sisu, you can pick yourselves up off the floor now. I always said I was a compassionate conservative.

  8. Stranger: Or should I call you Honey?

    Is your dad stronger then mine? I am not interested in who has better insurance, my dear.

    The health care described in the New York Times sounds anything but beneficial. What the proposed reform does is take away from the majority (private health care) to give to the uninsured minority. Sounds like socialism to me.

    Heres a thought: It is against the law to turn anyone away from the ER. I prefer that over being told to get on a four month waiting list with questionable care. I suppose you are right though, and the Dr.s in Canada have no idea what they are talking about.

    Whether you want to admit it or not, "end of life counseling" is in the reform. Which is a nice way of saying...."we would like to save a little money and since you are going to die anyway- we are going to deny any more Chemo."

    And another thing, If we delt with all the ILLEGAL immigrents, we would see a drastic reduction in medical costs. More welfare medical available to US Citizens.

    It is a moral issue. When is the last time you paid personally for someone in need of medical? Far as I can see it starts there. Not with government mandates.

  9. This isn’t exactly true. It’s not that ERs have to take everyone for everything…only if they are in the midst of a medical emergency. This doesn’t include preventive care or care for routine illnesses, etc.

    Recently a child died in DC, in sight of the capital, because he had a decaying tooth that abscessed into his bones and caused a blood infection. When the child had a tooth ache that could have been treated w/ a routine dental appointment, he couldn’t be treated. When it got infected, he couldn’t get help. Not until it was life threatening could he be seen in the ER under this law. Then his care cost over a million dollars and it was too late to save his life. Who paid the million dollars? Hospitals have to recoup it somehow…so they have to raise costs on health care for others with health insurance in order to cover it.

    In short–people with private health insurance are already paying for the health care of poor kids–in the most expensive and least effective way possible.

    As for me, since I’m paying anyway, I’d have preferred to pay for the $50 dentist appointment and some antibiotics in the first place, instead of paying a million dollars and killing the kid to boot. I think that’s a huge part of what it means to be prolife.

    That’s just to say that this issue isn’t as easy as either side would like us to believe…

  10. P.S.

    A couple of summers ago I paid some medical expenses for a visiting nephew who had no health insurance and who got sick at my home. Although I have pretty awesome health insurance I do not have a high salary, and was a single mom at the time, so we did have to go without for a little while.


  11. I've been a fan of factcheck.org for a long time. Here's a good article summing up some of the biggest myths and misconceptions being put out by both sides:

    Seven Falsehoods about Health Care

  12. LLLreader chimes in: I got an email from a conservative Republican friend warning me about the "death squad" issue on page 450 of the health plan. I read it, reread it, and read it again. It says if a person WANTS to they can have an appointment paid for with a Dr. to discuss issues like Hospice care, nursing homes and such in order to plan ahead for their final illness. Every 5 years they can have that meeting paid for again in case they have changed their minds about end of life care. The meeting will be about how they want to be cared for and what are their options for care. The patient gets to say what he wants. I had the same discussion with my deceased husband's doctor in a hallway. The talk with my mother's doctor was over the phone. How good it would have been to have a meeting with the doctor ahead of time so that the patient and the family could have been able to discuss it in a matter of fact way, without the emotion of waiting until death is at the door. My husband would have wanted that meeting--my mother wouldn't have wanted to talk about it--and this plan would have served both of their wishes--it's voluntary. There isn't anything about assisted suicide in there. I can't imagine where the crazy idea that somehow the govt. is going to pull the plug on grandma came from. It's nuts!!!!! Maybe it's because so many people have such a fear of death that the idea of actually TALKING about it scares them.

  13. LLLreader to anon 5:45: You have exactly described what prolife means to me too!!! cvow--good post!

  14. Origin of the "death panels" idea: Death Panels Debunked

    Like many disagreements in the digital age, it all started with a post on Facebook.

  15. NOTICE: If you live in the SW WA. area, there is a FREE health care clinic if need be.

    From their Website:

    The staff and volunteers of the Free Clinic of Southwest Washington strive to provide the best health care services we can to our patients. Services available include: medical, dental, vision, and emergency medication assistance. For more information on any of the services listed below, please call us (360) 313-1390

    There is also a RX assistant program to help get free or low cost prescriptions: 360-735-3866

    Basic Health of WA. offers low cost insurance for adults and children. 1-800-826-2444

    This is not a complette list. There are MANY more options available. Call the Health Access Program.

  16. giggle.



    How do you people add a link?



    Ok, Ok, I am going to bed now. G'night all.

  18. P.S.

    There is no relevance for your last posts to the current topic. You seem to delight in posting the most inflammatory and ridiculous things as possible. Sometimes I wonder if your reading level may not be very sophisticated: Didn't you notice the irony in the Pravda article? It was quite deliberate.

    --Anonymous Poster

  19. Anon:

    YA think? Perhaps you should lighten up. It is alot more fun not to be "sophisticated" The pizza thing IS funny and the snopes thing...well, you had to be there. Are you really that stiff? Do I feel a comment moderation coming on..? not for being called a unsophisticated poor schmuck though. Because I AM inflammatory.

    I posted some very worthy information on free health care in SW WA. No Comment?

  20. Yes, I called the numbers you had posted P.S., and wanted to find out if it really is free. Yes, it is free, but its only for people who meet the federal standard for poverty in DC and the lower 48 states, which is under $22,000 a year. It also has to be a true emergency like those usually seen by urgent care and emergency rooms. It's not for things like well care or check-ups. That leaves out a lot of truly poor people who might make over $22,000 a year but still be quite poor and otherwise uninsured. I don't know about where you live, but in Minneapolis a two-bedroom apartment is at least $800--and that's in a pretty crappy neighborhood. That family of 4 making--say--$23,000 a year--is still in poverty.

    So no, P.S. you proved exactly nothing. Like usual.


  21. so anon is also stranger.

    Sounds like it is there for people who REALLY need it. I have brought my kids to regular urgent care for ear aches and such. And you can get free imunizations, so that would sum up well child. I have a friend that went to the FREE HEALTH CARE CLINIC for treatment of uterin cancer. They don't turn you down. You can also get dental and vision there. NON emergent.

    The same people that can't afford health care drive nicer cars then me and have internet and cable. Seems I remember someone wanting a program to give everyone computers and internet access to.

    Take a chill pill would YA

  22. P.S.

    I have made several friends here since I have been here. Now we mostly communicate OFF the blog because of your annoying, boorish behavior. People are avoiding this place hoping you will leave it or begin to behave. That is coming from both politically conservative and relatively liberal folks. I am beginning to think you are actually a person from the OALC or the ALC who is trying to shut down this blog and has used this ingenious method to do so. A real pro-Laestadian! Congratulations. You're almost there.


  23. LLLreader comments: Voi, voi--the health care issue is a big one! Stranger, I have a female relative who is on disability and gets free medical care. Today she was told DSHS would not pay for a pelvic exam--this is for a women who has a family history of female type cancers--extensive history as a matter of fact. It's like a previous poster mentioning the kid who died because of an infected tooth--we need to provide care for people before it's critical. The remark from p.s. about people who can't afford health care driving nicer cars then her is just a cheap shot.

  24. Stranger, I agree with you, including your comments about P.S. Amen!

    I grew up around people like P.S. and was often at the receiving end of all that toxicity (one reason I left). I have no desire to rekindle that type of relationship on ANY level, even on this site. Besides, there's no way to truly communicate with someone so full of bitterness and hate. (The comments by that kind of person never come from a place of love.)


  25. Stranger and Anon Sisu:

    This website claims to welcome all opinions except mine. I am the farthest thing from ALC-less then you, I am sure. I have a differing opinion, that's all. I quit, long ago, the name calling such as stranger has done.(poor unsophisticated schmuck) But I AM the hated. So it's not about HOW you post but WHAT you post.

    As it were, I do know someone who does drive a nicer car then me, (i can't afford more, I choose health insurance) but collects every state program out there-including health care. So what do you choose to spend your money on? Cable?

    Are you really ALL leaving from this site because of little 'ol me?

    I have a huge circle of friends and associates who roll their eyes as we discuss you and your narrow mindeness. You see, this blog reaches farther then you know. They are starting to lay bets on your rabid responses.

    Congrats stranger. you win.

    I am going to sign off and enjoy another glass of wine with friends. Finn? yes. Can't be helped. ALC? not even close.

  26. P.S.

    Just for the record, I have never had cable television and am the last woman in the western world without a cell phone. I can't afford them. I live in a very modest 60 year old post-WW2 home with used furniture and worn wooden floors. I have a college degree but have chosen a less demanding job lower-paid job that does not require my level of education, but has excellent insurance and union protection, and 12 sick days a year. I need all that. I have a chronic, debilitating set of medical conditions that involve chronic pain. I also have a child with a set of learning disabilities that have required a lot of therapy and extra help from an extra tired mom.

    So, yes I chose insurance too. For 2 years I drove a car that I had to exit out of the passenger side because I could not afford to fix it.

    Yet, if I had been told I would have to make another pay cut (we have mostly done without raises for several years because of the economy and "unallotment") I would have done it without question. I have had one of those rare mystery illnesses in which a person is down-dragged tired and have a mysterious source of chronic pain only known to a fraction of the population. When I did find a treatment that offered the only lasting relief I have ever known, I was lucky lucky lucky I had insurance that would cover it. The majority of my doctor's patients won't cover it because all the medical literature is from Europe and there have not been any trials here. It's considered experimental . Many of his patients had to take 2nd and even third mortgages out on their homes to pay for it. He has done some of them without any pay and who have had to do fundraisers to pay for the rest. The suicide rate for this condition is 10 x the rate of the general population because of the effects this severe pain has on the brain. My life has improved a lot and I feel better and yeah, I went through some bad times, but I won't forget those who have had it less fortunately. I won't say, "I made it and had to suffer so so can they."

    As far as insults, you have said I live in a land of fluff and apparently I am also rabid and narrow minded. I guess I really don't mind. I have strong opinions (about health care access, but not about anything else) and the cost for having strong opinions and convictions sometimes means people will call me names. I'm a strong person who has managed a lot and come out even the better for it, so I don't mind and I see no need to whine.


  27. To clarify, even back then if I had been told I would have had to take another pay cut to pay for universal access, I would have gladly done it. I would gladly do it now.

    --Stranger with no cell phone in my future

  28. Health Care Reform and Abortion


  29. LLLreader to p.s.: It made me cringe to hear you say you have a "huge circle of friends who roll their eyes when you discuss us and our narrow mindedness". Right there is the issue! If you wanted to have open discussions with others this is a good place to do it, however that isn't what you want. We are all over the map with our takes on hot button issues like gay rights etc. and we all get to say what we think. The fact that you discuss us with others in a degrading way is not a surprise. Your hostility shows up in ways that you might not be aware of. I don't understand why you are here. This blog shouldn't be a battleground The intent here is to provide a place for people who left the Apostolic churches to find their footing. Surely there are other blogs that are for people who want to argue politics, and that is where you should be putting your energies. It is always threatening to a group that wants to welcome everyone when a member says, "I quit because you don't like my opinions". Then people want to step up and reassure that member that their differing opinions are welcome. It's a little blackmail that goes on. Kids do it all the time--"I'm taking my toys and going home". Well, I think it's time you took your toys and went home, and don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out!!!!!!!

  30. I agree with LLLreader. There's a difference between expressing your opinion and being hurtful. The "huge circle" comment was highly problematic and out of line.

  31. Ive said it before PS: I have chosen to bow out of all conversation here because you are too quick to jump to conclusions about everyone else and name call them based on your conclusions INSTEAD OF ASKING AND JUST LISTENING & ACCEPTING WITH AN OPEN MIND!! It really is possible to state your opinions without having to put someone else down to validate your point as being valid TO YOU, and accept it doesnt HAVE to be valid to anyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have noticed others getting sucked into your methods, but you put everyone on the defenssive to where they dont feel they have a choice... I dont see any of this undertone in other conversations without your participation.

    And to boot, you even posted not so very long ago that your heart was convicted of "throwing the first stone" at all if us and you apologized profusely and I believed sincerly!!!!!! So what happened? Was the conviction so short lived that you have forgotten and gone back to your old ways?

    We are not here to throw stones, not here to tell others what thier opinions and feelings mean, not here to snigger about the others behind thier backs, or anything else along those lines. If you have sunk so low that we are now your form of mocking entertainment in your life, you really need to grow up and move out.

    Buck up, open your heart and mind to a LISTENING NON CONCLUSION JUMPING conversation, state your opinion and move on, or GO AWAY!

    Personally I am going to simply ignore anything posted by you, and call it good. I will no longer allow your toxicity to chase me away from benifiting from this site.

    Anyone remember the Brush Praire Poet? (or whatever his name was)

  32. and just so you cant martyr yourself, your opinions are welcome here, but not your degrading opinions and conclusions of our opinions and feelings.

  33. SO to stay on topic: I have to agree that health care is a moral issue because how we care for ourselves and others is a moral issue and Christ instructed us as to our motives in this and sometimes what it could look like.

    Of course it will look different through the times and nations and for a zillion individuals, but if our hearts are with Christ and his instructions, and we care for ourselves and our fellow man as instructed, I believe it is indeed a moral issue.

    However, I wont pretend to know what that looks like for an entire nation, or how to make it work for an entire nation of individuals...

  34. Yes, I believe health care is a moral issue. Whatsoever we as a society do unto the least of us is what do unto Jesus, and right now, we're treating Jesus very poorly. We consign shameful numbers of our neighbors to the modern equivalent of debtors prison - being hounded by creditors and driven into bankruptcy - in large part because our health care system is broken. People are going bankrupt just because they were unlucky enough to get sick, and the majority of those who fall prey to medical bankruptcy had health insurance. When almost every other developed nation on earth spends less tax money than the US on health care but gets better overall results in terms of life expectancy and infant mortality rates, we should put down our jingoistic chants and take up the heavy work of setting our house in order.

  35. LLLreader agrees: Health care is indeed a moral issue!! Did you hear about the free clinic that was held in CA last week? People lined up for hours to get dental and medical care that they couldn't afford. I can't remember the number, but it was thousands--it looked like some clinic in a third world country. In fact, I believe the organizer was someone who has held free clinics in poor countries and realized it's needed here too. Maybe someone has more accurate facts on it then I can recollect. My "recollector" sometimes goes on the fritz! Blessings all around-----

  36. I was discussing the issue tonight with my dear great grandmother... we were trying to think of what could help. Its hard when each problem has a problem that came before it... we can keep backing up and backing and seem to never find the beginning where we can start to make things better.

    I thought treatment shouldnt cost so much, or perhaps trying to put a percentage cap on profit but Im not sure how to do that without TOO much control. How much is good and how much is too much? There must be some balance between a complete free market drivin by supply and demand with people getting rich off it, and total control. She (my grandmum)said its not fair for a DR who spends 16 years going to school and training to be a specialist should be limited or he could lose the incentive and/or never make it through the 16 years.

    So why does school have to cost so much? Why do MRI's and CATs have to cost so much? Sure there the equipment is expensive, but why so much there? Why can we sue DR's that have in good faith tried to save your life? Sure keep track of mistakes to make sure they're not adding up, but multi million dollar insurance?? It seems that much more than the housing bubble may need to burst? I just dont know what a good solution might be or where it would start???

    Instead of bashing what wont and doesnt work, does anyone have any ideas on what might work? On ways we can take care of our fellow man? Anyone in or know of someone in the healthcare industry that has any ideas?

    Ive been to the free clinics in SWWA several times when I chose not to purchase WA basic health -couldnt afford the $25 a month. But what if something more serious than strep throat had risen? I just crossed my fingers :p

    Oh!! There is a website Ive heard of -- I will look into it more. If I remember correctly, its basically a group of people who chose to basically "insure" themselves. People submit thier medical bills and people donate what they can. All the info was open to any member so there were no secrets or profit margins, just people helping people. It was fascinating.

  37. I posted the first comment on this thread and it was benign, just my thoughts. The second comment was from stranger calling me a poor schmuck. I am not without sin, neither did I cast the first stone.

    I did not see one response to her for that neither when she called me unsophisticated. There in lies the problem. If I look back at other threads- it is a the same pattern. Bait and switch. Take the plank out of your own eye so you can see clearly your own actions.

    LLLreader says there are other blogs if I want to argue politics. Yet this is a political subject, posted by the host. Of course I share it with friends. I am sure the rest of you do to.

    I can't find what it was in my first post that caused stranger to get bitterly angry enough to call me a poor schmuck. Neither could my friends. I should watch my REACTION to the bait and switch posters. I apologize.

    It is a moral issue, not government. There are many great causes and missions out there. Maybe one of you could start a citizen drive to raise funds for those in need. Kind of like the Red Cross does in many situations. Then those called to give could.

  38. P.S.

    You claim you are Christian, and yes, I did say that there are brainwashed "poor schmucks" helping medical carpetbaggers get rich on our misfortunes. Wasn't it your job to turn the other cheek? I am sorry, and shouldn't have worded it that way, but I don't think you ever miss an opportunity to engage in a rumble if you see it coming. I think you love it.

    You also talk about of both sides of your mouth. You want government interference for MORAL issues like stopping abortion. Then when universal health care is advocated, you say its a MORAL issue in which government doesn't belong. You want it your way, but you never seem to convince sway anyone else on your point.

    It's too bad you cannot convince your throng of friends to also post? Anyway, I am glad to hear you have friends. Sincerely. Are they from all walks of life? One of my best friends is a convervative, almost like you. When I say almost, she doesn't parrot Rush and the furthest right "opinion," she is willing to consider other viewpoints. I've never had a single political argument with her turn nasty.

    How is your life? Since leaving Laestadianism, how has it changed? You are raising a grandchild. How are you raising her differently from how you raised your children, now that you have been awakened? What are your hopes for him/her? You keep saying life is better since you left; how? I wish you would stay on the blog and answer these. Perhaps you can stay away from politics since it seems to upset you people don't think the same way as you. Most on other matters; there should be a lot. What do you love about your new church? It would be nice to see the softer side of P.S.


  39. I think health care is a moral issue, too. I don't think health care should be rationed according to who is the richest, it should be available to everyone from the riches to the poorest.People shouldn't have to wait until they are on their death bed to see a doctor. I don't have a solution for you. I am thankful to live where I do, and feel extremely blessed to know that no matter what happens (if my husband loses his job, etc.) we will never be declined basic health care.

  40. LLLreader asks YM: Could you remind me where you are from?

  41. I think health care is a moral issue, there should be ways to provide care for those who cannot afford it. I'll bet most of our immigrant ancestors were on Medicaid or something similar in their old age. Mine were, and I'm glad it was there for them. However, I don't think that insurance companies should be driven out of business so that there is only the public option. Those who can afford to purchase health care for themselves or for their employees should be expected to do so, thereby saving precious public dollars for the truly needy. My 2 cents :-)

  42. Norah, that actually sounds like a pretty good answer, let the people who want to buy it pay, and the rest can have it covered.

    I'm from Canada, and I know our health care system isn't perfect either, but I'm happy with how it is. I only wish we had dental covered too :P

  43. to add--I just realized it sounded like I think the richest people should pay for everyone, thats not what I meant.

  44. I share many of the same opinions as our host but hesitate to post. I am Pretty sure I don't want to be associated with the bias here. I believe I am fair minded-I can see P.S. has made a valid point about being attacked first and for stating her opnion on health care. No one has acknowledged the fact.

    It did seem like a bunch of rabid dogs attacking after the stranger post. You should be more careful how you present yourselves.

    I believe health care should be available to everyone. It is one of the basics of life. If we provide the basics, we can then
    claim to be humane.

    I am going to go back to watching and listening now. Remember, it pays to practice what you preach or you have no credibility.

  45. I dont think the first response was a direct attack, but was taken that way, and this isnt a new issue with this person, so its hard to get the full perspective of our frustration with just one thread... history has creditiblity that can be hard to see as a newcomer.