"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Creeds

Thursday, July 21, 2005


There are some intriguing new posts about Christian creeds (click on link above). Thank you, readers, for increasing my understanding of the Nicene Creed. Personally, I have problems with creeds of all kinds -- which are loyalty oaths, basically, engineered to encourage conformity -- yet I understand their importance in the history and their continuing function as foundations for action. I guess I consider religious creeds like marriage vows and your homeland's Pledge of Allegiance: they are pale, inadequate descriptions of true faith, fidelity and patriotism.

What is your experience? What do creeds do for you? Or what have they done for you lately? :)


  1. LLLreader--on the subject of creeds--I find there is a certain feeling of "connectedness" to past generations when you recite words identical to those spoken by your ancestors. Then too, there is such beauty in the language of the Nicene Creed. Thanks to those who shared all the creed info.--very informative and very appreciated.

  2. Hi
    I just got back from vacation so this is in response to comments from a few weeks ago.
    No, the Heidemen/Torola (1st or Finnish Aps) aren't about to merge with the ALC. Good Heavens! The ALC is in heresy according to the Finn Aps. The Finn Aps just kicked out too congregations for being too lenient or some other such nonsense. They kicked out Phoenix & Lansing MI. A group from Cokato Mn has left and formed their own called Grace Lutheran. I believe they meet in a school. To ex LLC, I was 13/14 when the Big Split happened. I would love to correspond with people directly when I have time, but am leary of posting my email. This is certainly quite a ride we are all taking together. Isn't it amazing how all of us who have left from the different factions of LLL seem to all go through the same journey of pain and lonliness. I'm very thankful for this website where we can all come together for support!

  3. Thanks for the posts. I can't tell you how gratifying it is to hear that this site is helpful. It helps to redeem that pain and loneliness.

    To LLLreader, I appreciate your comments about the historical connectedness and beauty of the Nicene Creed. These are two important reasons is why I continue to worship in a traditional church. Fortunately, it is a church that values questions and dialogue.

  4. I share free2bme's suspicion of any belief statement that is used to enforce conformity and erect strict boundaries concerning who is "in" and who is "out."

    That, in large measure, is why I'm an Anglican/Episcopalian now. The basis for unity is not that everyone believes the same thing. The basis for unity is our ability to gather and pray together, gather and worship God together. "Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi" is a Latin saying that, loosely translated means "As we worship, so we shall live." I find this a refreshing contrast to my Laestadian upbringing, where it seemed like so much time was spent insuring that everybody believed exactly the same that we never really "got on with" loving mercy, doing justice, and walking humbly with our God.

    Like LLLreader, I am attracted to the beauty of the language of the Nicene Creed, and feel connected to a long line of people who have recited it. I find certain turns of phrase evocative, getting me into a mystical mindset of awe and reverence. "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God." is one such phrase, "seen and unseen" is another. "We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the.life of the world to come." has always moved me, because I feel like I've spent a lot of my life looking for something that is extremely elusive, sometimes wondering if it even exists! :)

    Perhaps the most subversive part of the Nicene Creed is the first word. It undermines both our individualistic age, and also perhaps my pietistic Laestadian background as well. There is no "I" in the Nicene Creed. I take this to mean that "we" are all in this uncertain, confusing faith journey together.

    A few years back I engaged in an exercise where each person in the group wrote their own creed. This was quite illuminating, and I heartily recommend it, as it made me think about what I look for in the creed, and what moves me about the liturgy.

  5. I consider the Creeds to be like the framework of a house.. The foundation is Christ, the chief cornerstone as Ephesians 2:20 says. But the Creeds give us structure and form, also necessary for a solid construction of faith.. they are a summary of the basic beliefs of Scripture of those who espouse them. But our experiences and our daily walk of faith is what finishes the house, the 'decor', if you will. That's how I see the Creeds.