"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: LLL the Infallible?

Saturday, May 07, 2005

LLL the Infallible?

sunrise
I'm not sure what to make of this history of the OALC (more can be found online here). Is it accurate? I'm very interested in hearing your comments.

In 1965, a schism occurred among the Firstborn in Europe. A radical minority broke with the main group, led by Elder Gunnar Jönsson. The minority is known by the names “leeviläiset” and “pikkuleeviläiset” after its main leader, Levi Älvgren, also known as “Pikku-Leevi” (Little Levi) because he was only 153 centimeters tall. According to Lauri Koistinen, a spokesman for the minority, the trouble actually began in 1946, when J. P. Stöckel and Gunnar Jönsson, traveling in America, established “a new spiritual government” with former leader Arthur Niska now outranked by Samuel Juvonen. Koistinen charges, among other things, that the majority group began to tolerate pictures, photographs, flowers and fashionable clothing; women ceased using aprons; men began wearing modern hats and white shirts; organs, radios and televisions became permissible; wreaths were laid at funerals; birthdays and father’s and mother’s days were celebrated; and people engaged in sports, even on Sundays.

Koistinen also accuses the majority of using the new translation of the Swedish Bible and a revised Swedish edition of Laestadius’ sermons published by Per Boreman in 1957 under the name Evangeliepostilla. According to the minority, none of Laestadius’ words, even obscene ones, should be changed or omitted because he is the seventh angel of Revelation 10:7 and “every word he preached after 1844 is by the Holy Spirit” and “every word is God’s Word and is to be taken seriously.”

20 comments:

  1. That is a pretty amazing document. I haven't seen anything with that level of detail on the history of Laestadianism before.

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  2. Warren Hepokoski is an interesting guy. I'm not sure but I believe that he is no longer affiliated with any Laestadian church nor any other for that matter. He has some other interesting documents on the Web too. I found this doing family research as a couple of my ancestors were well-known preachers.

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  3. Wow. I didn't realize that LLL's followers think he was the 7th angel of Revelation. This is what Branch Davidians, Jehovah's Witness and other cults say about their prophets.

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  4. A hooligan is young person who behaves in a noisy and violent way in public plases, usually with a group of other similar people...
    (Birmingam University Database)

    Too strong word? Too strong only in U.S.?

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  5. No, hooligan is a fine word, but when a person's name is attached to it, it is not acceptable on this site.

    Finnish friend, may I ask you what the OALC equivalent in Finland teaches about the Lutheran church in general?

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  6. "what the OALC equivalent in Finland teaches about the Lutheran church in general"

    In Finland 99.9% of OALC members are also members in Finnish Lutheran Church. So the OALC in inside FLC. I know this is different in the U.S. (these days about 80% of all Finns are members in FLC). There is something happening in FLC that many in OALC do not like. For example female pastors since 1986 and teachings about some things that are named sin in the Bible. Sometimes these things come up in sermons.

    B.R. FinnJemmy

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  7. Another Finn here,
    In Finland OALC is really a church within a church, i.e. one of the several revival moments of FLC. We need this since FLC itself is a tax funded state institution. Its pastors went through university and landed a secure job. I personally consider some pastors Christian (i.e. having a personal faith) and others definitely not (they just work there). As the other poster said, the situation in FLC has become worse and worse over the years. As its official policies are set in a demorcratic process by its pastors, the ones with personal faith (clearly a minority) have a hard time getting their agenda through. Because of this consensus process, sermons these days try to be politically correct and not offend anyone (gays/lesbians etc). Sermon may not include the word "sin" because it makes people depressed. Often the sermon is full of beatiful phrases and sweet sounding language but there is nearly no real content. A person with awaken heart is likely to leave the service as empty as he came there. Because of all these developments, OALC fundamentalist members consider the whole FLC to be "dead faith". A majority of us on the other hand have still not completely lost our hopes for the dear church of this nation. We should affect within FLC and people attending its meetings. Kinda "be the light for the world" as Jesus asks us to do. A lot of OALC members regularly attend FLC services, meetings, choir etc.

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  8. Hello Another Finn-I like your approach to the FLC. In a state church there is bound to be different levels of commitment. Is it considered OK by the OALC members to actually go to a choir practice? I can't imagine that it would be approved of in Battle Ground.

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  9. Fundamentalist type of OALC members probably would not consider it OK. Libarals wouldn't see anything wrong using your God given gift this way. I know dozens of OALC members who attend or have attended some choir's practises.

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  10. Hyvä toinen finni!

    Ajatuksesi on samanlainen kuin minulla, toi language onnistuu näkojään sujuvammin sinulta, hyvä että laitoit lisäystä. Samat teemat täälläkin esillä kuin meillä, joskus tuntuu että sivuteemat. Samoin täällä ajoittain hirsi (OALC) kolleegan silmässä tuntuu näkyvän selvähkösti. Onkohan niin että opetus on "tiukempaa" aavan meren tuolla puolen vai onko kyseessä FormerLaestadian- näkemys jossa suhteettomasti korostuu erikoiset yksityiskohdat?

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  11. Translation anyone? For the benefit of the majority of the visitors to this site, I'd like to ask that posts be made in English or a translation provided with the post. Thank you.

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  12. It seems like nobody's willing to take the challenge to translate the Finnish post above, so I guess I'll have to give it a try...

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    Dear another Finn!

    Your thought is similar to mine. It seems like you are more fluent in the language, it is good you posted some additional information. The same themes are discussed here as at our place (theoforos: probably meaning similar Finnish sites), sometimes it seems like it is the not so important themes. From time to time it also seems like the beam (OALC) in your colleague's eye is clearly visible. I wonder if the teaching is "stricter" on the other side of the great ocean or if the question is about a FormerLaestadian view, in which peculiar details are given a disproportionately heavy emphasis?

    --------

    I didn't quite understand the beam in your colleague's eye part...

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  13. Better translation of that would maybe be:
    From time to time it also seems so that the beam in your OALC- brothers eye is clearly visible.

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  14. The Laurie Koistinen quotes and write-up confuses me. My recollection is that he was very much against Jonsson. Regarding aprons, yes, in the "olden" days, women were expected to wear them. Some things mellow and do change over time, thank goodness.

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  15. Please share your recollections regarding the split. Was it over matters of lifestyle? Did Koistenen think Jonsson was getting too liberal? Why do you think the American church -- even now -- is so different than the Finnish one?

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  16. free...
    Actually, nothing was ever shared with me, not that I was even aware of any splits. All I remember is that during one elders meetings in America, Koistinen published an ad inviting people to their "true" meetings and Jonsson was criticized. Also, I know nothing about Finland. Lots of help, huh.

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  17. - recollections regarding the split-

    There has been many splits during last 100 years and Koistenen /Jönsson have been two meters (8 feet?) underground for dacades. Does it help us finding reasons, findig who is guilty? Should we look forward? I think the reason is always the same; Who is the king of the hill.

    "Why do you think the American church is so different than the Finnish one?"

    My answer (if You mean OALS-church)is that its not so different. As I wrote, maybe it is about a FormerLaestadian view, in which peculiar details are given a disproportionately heavy emphasis?

    (that was a good translation of the other Finn)

    FinnJemmy

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  18. FinnJemmy, please respect the fact that those of us affected by the OALC have a valid, healthy, productive interest in OALC practices, doctrine and history. This site is not a witch-hunt, as much as some will want to characterize it that way.

    As for "disproportionality" -- by whose standard? I did not find the OALC a reliable barometer of proportionality.

    If the sauna gets too hot, just step outside for a minute.

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  19. Somewhere I have a small square of paper with Gunnar Jonnson's signature on it. He visited our home when I was a young girl and (presumably) I asked for his autograph. Strange, eh?

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  20. "disproportionality, by whose standard" This was just my opinion and my standard and my point of wiew. - This is a discussion as You know. Do You maybe think that the other writers are telling the truth and nothing but the truth?

    If the sauna gets too hot... this was good, I like Your style. Keep It!,

    Don Jonnson's signature... Yes, really strange! (I think he has been also in my parents house.)

    FinnJemmy

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