"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Who's Who in the Queue

Monday, May 23, 2005

Who's Who in the Queue

Thanks to Theoforos for shedding some light on the apostolic succession question. I'm reposting his comments here so they aren't overlooked. Is this information new to others, too? Is it possible that this history is not taught in America? Perhaps no one is interested except those who find the teachings on exclusivity less than credible.
The European OALC branch teaches that there is a line of believers going all the way down to the apostles. There are some Christian movements in the past that are generally recognized as having been "living faith" by the European OALC branch: the Waldensians in early middle ages (about 1000 AD I think), the Hussites in later middle ages (14th or 15th century) and the Herrnhutians in the 17th and 18th century. The "reader movement" in Northern Sweden, which the Lapp girl Mary was a member of, is believed to be an offspring of the Herrnhutian movement. And also the Haugians in Norway around the time of Laestadius are considered to have been "living faith".

It is interesting that all of the mentioned groups, except for the Swedish readers, have survived to this day although the Laestadians often do not consider them "living faith" any more. There are Waldensians in Italy (they just recently merged with the Italian Methodist church), Herrnhutians in Germany and the Baltic countries. Besides, I think the Moravian church in America has Herrnhutian roots, or maybe they are Hussites? I'm not sure about that. And there are still Haugians in Norway and America. I think they are called something like "Lutheran brethren" in America.

I think their are two views in the Firstborn Laestadian (OALC) movement about Luther's role in the "line". As far as I know all consider Luther to be part of the line of believers, but some are of the opinion that the "living faith" did not come to the Swedish Lapland through Luther but through rather through the Herrnhutians and the earlier representatives of than line, the Hussites, while others are of the opinion that the "living faith" that came to the Swedish Lapland through through Luther and his followers. Buts most of them might not have any specific opinion about which way the "living faith" came.

(Please note that I'm not expressing my own beliefs or opinions, I'm just trying to give a picture of the Firstborn Laestadian/OALC view on the matters).

Thanks, Theo. If Fox's Book of Martyrs is indeed approved by the OALC, then John Wesley, the 18th c. founder of Methodism, is also in the queue.


  1. I never heard Wesley being part of the "line", but there was a British guy the early Laestadian preachers corresponded with and they considered him a "brother", might have been methodist, can't remember his name. But one thing I know is that when problems arouse in the relationship between the Laestadian immigrants in America and the American branches of the Scandinavian state churches, the preachers in the Swedish Lapland told them either to take communion with the methodists or to start their own congregations (they eventually opted for the latter one). It seems like Methodists were at least considered the next best thing to Lutherans.

  2. Would be interested in knowing how the Laestadian Lutheran congregations came about, which are supposed to be "conservative" Laestadians. How does there conservatism compare to, say, the Firstborns.

  3. P.S. I should also ask -- what does conservative mean anyway, anymore?

    Although I do not agree with all of the statements in these various blogs, I think they could be very useful in learning more history from different perspectives.

  4. Not fully understanding blogging, how can one read only current entries without going through the many blog spots to look for current reponses.

  5. I haven't tried these yet, but bloggerhacks.blogspot.com looks promising.

  6. Welcome in the queue!

    Midsummertime meetings in Finland / Lahti 24.6. - 27.6.2005.

    English translation also! See You! (It takes less than 15 hours to travel from U.S. west coast.)


  7. Re"Approved List Of Books"

    Are you saying that there is
    actually an approved list and
    not just a suggested list?

    If so is it a sin to deviate?

  8. ...TV's and romance novels in OALC closets.

    ...spent hours circling all the swear words...

    These are the best jokes in this blog so far. I think also OALC:ers would get enormous hemorrhoids if they watch TV and read novels circling all the swear words in closets...

    "Sieppari ruispellossa"

  9. Comments like the last few demonstrate exactly how you've lost your credibility long ago. Your true colors come forth.

  10. For those of you interested in the early church in America, there is a good chapter (46 pages) in "History of the Finns in Michigan" by Armas Holmio.
    Regarding line of succession: I recall a sermon by Wantaja, a preacher in Calumet, who said other groups probably had living faith, and I remember him mentioning the Huguenots. I don't remember anything else about that sermon except that it was one of the most interesting ones I had ever sat through.
    And, finally, regarding romance novels, it struck me as hilarious when I heard that old ladies, not the young chicks, trade those at church! And I'm not talking Harlequin here.