"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Shunning the Sun

Tuesday, October 12, 2004

Shunning the Sun

Shunning is intentionally neglecting, avoiding or marginalizing someone. From the ordinary (neglecting to visit) to the extreme (legal disinheritance), shunning seems to be promoted by the OALC.

It surprised me to learn that not everyone in the OALC chooses to shun. My cousin told me recently about a local preacher and wife who regularly drive upstate to visit their ex-OALC daughter. They even go shopping together. Boy, was I jealous when I heard that.

Perhaps shunning is practiced to protect those who stay. To protect them from their own doubts, which would naturally be provoked by contact with loved ones "outside."

It protects them from the reality of reasonable, loving, nondemonic non-OALC Christians. Growing up, I thought people who left the church were interested in pursuing SIN on a fulltime basis. If I'd actually spent any time with them, I might have noticed that they were lovely people. Hmmmm.

Shunning is a wall to keep out the sun.


  1. Can anyone put into words why Laestadian members do NOT call people who have stopped coming to church? I knew only a few who did but I did not call them when I was going. Why not? Are they afraid of hurting them by saying the wrong thing? Are they afraid of what they might hear and as you say in your 'Shunning the Sun'(which is a fabulous way to put it by the way) protecting themselves from their own doubts? Or are they just not interested? What are they afraid of? Probably free2beme hit on it here.

  2. I appreciate your work...there is not much information out there on this group. We have so many moving into our area...they are building a chuch and I assume many more are to follow...I now know why I have felt that they look down on us that do not attend their church and also why it is not advertised to outsiders to come(I feel that if you do go you would be welcomed)I pitty them. Jesus would never do that and I believe that he left the footsteps that we should follow in. Thank you and I will be checking back very often and I will comment so we can be there for the ones that need the support.

  3. My heart goes out to you. I am a member of the Old Apostolic Lutheran Church and I would never shun others from the world or former members. I can see and feel the hurt in your message and I pray that you and your family can reconcile, heal and show love towards one another. My sister chooses not to attend church for now. Actually, she is married to a lawyer who won't "allow" her or her children to come. Our family is there for her with all the love we can give. We also know that deep in her heart she still believes. I hope and pray that you will come to see the truth and your family will be there for you. I honestly don't understand how parents can turn from their children and not show love. All of my Christian friends I believe would not shun others in this way.

  4. Hi everyone. It's so nice to see others who understand being an "ex"...
    Here's a comment from http://lefttheoalc.blogspot.com regarding "studying" the Bible.

    "I am a member of the OALC and this is the first time I ever heard of such a thing as being discouraged from reading the Bible. That is not true at all. We have many large gatherings and often discuss the Bible. Many have brought up questions pertaining to the Bible and we discuss them thoroughly. Apparently you have not have attended the gatherings or discussions while visiting with the Christians. I pray that you have a better understanding, and not criticize our church."

    I'd love input from other ex-oalcers. Gatherings I attended attempted discussion of the Bible. You'd gather in a room, a preacher would pick a "place" in the Bible, then go around the room and ask people what they thought it meant. Either someone would eventually get the "right" answer, or the preacher would tell you the OALC answer.
    My recollections involve these "places" somehow referring to an oalc "Christian" specifically. I always felt empty after a gathering, because the answers usually didn't quite make sense to me. Looking back, I think it was because we weren't studying a book or topic in the Bible, but a "place".

    Additional comments from ex-oalcers might help this person understand. Maybe some specific gathering discussions you recall which now that you've left seem less than accurate.


  5. The proof that they do not encourage Laestadians to read THE WORD is in the end result. Do they know anyone in the Laestadian church who has read or is reading or is deep into God's letter to us? No, they don't. I never found one. Their discussions are about what Laestadius thinks, NOT what God says. How would they know if they are discussing God's Word or what man says if no one reads the Bible --including the preachers or the elders? They read only about 11 parts. They should count them. There are only 11 parts preached about. What does the rest of the Bible talk about? Inconsequential stuff? Why would God write the rest of it if He did not mean for us to read it ALL? I HAVE attended many gathering discussions in my 55 years of life so they cannot say we haven't been there and are just making stuff up. This person from the other web site need to wake up - please - to God's Word. He or she needs to read it for themselves and then judge for theirselves if they encourage their members to read it. They encourage Laestadius only, because if they encouraged God's Word to be read by the people they would be getting too many questions that they cannot answer. Been there--done that. Do they know that:

    Jesus Christ is The Word? No Rev 19:13
    The Word became flesh? No John 1:14
    There are two resurections? No Rev 20:5, 11-12
    There is a second death? No Rev 20:14/Rev 21:8
    The Word is what judges you at the last day? No John 12:48
    Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteousness? No John 7:24
    That God wants our love not our sacrifices (like looking a certain way or wearing certain clothes) No Hosea 6:6
    ALL of Israel will be saved? No Romans 11:26-27
    God's sacred name is Yahaveh? No Ps 96:11 You have to know the orignal Hebrew to get this.
    God wants us to ask,seek, and knock? No Matt 7:7
    Jesus became our Passover? No 1 Cor 5:7
    A bolt of lightening follows a path made by electrons every time? No Job 38:25

  6. Dear Anonymous,

    People experience the OALC in various ways. For many it's positive and satisfying; for others it's not. A person who struggles has two choices: stay and be quiet or leave and pursue another life. Leaving can be painful and lonely, especially when one is raised in the church and their only social network is the church. OALC members are not encouraged to reach out beyond its walls; in fact they are advised not to. Therefore, when one leaves it's as if they are insignificant and worthless. Their reasons for leaving are not explored, considered, or shared by the preachers.

    One message to spread amongst your flock is those who leave are no less a Christian. Please do that; it would be a step in the right direction. Many of us are caring and loving people, married, raising families, finding solace elsewhere. We believe that Christ died for our sins and pray for our own salvation.

    That the OALC teaches it is the ONLY saving faith is pompous, deceiving, and divisive. A true Christian church would fervently encourage its members to love as Christ loved, even those outside its walls.

    Signed, Slipped Out the Back

  7. Shunning is a wall to keep out the sun is a fantastic way to word the truth. What is the sun? Light, right? Who is our light? Christ. What does Christ teach? Truth. So we are really saying that shunning is a wall to keep out light = shunning is a wall to keep out Christ = Shunning is a wall to keep out truth.

  8. It is very understandable to be a member of an organization and to justify its tenets. It is equally understandable to leave the group and then attempt to prove its foundations to be in error. But consider this: It is very liberating to simply recognize that we need people around that believe like we do in order to feel secure in our own thinking. The OALC never really worked for me but it did so on a level sufficient for me to stay for a long time. I have different views now and it no longer has any appeal that is compelling for my life. Whether this is evolving or devolving, I will leave for others to debate.

    I had many differences with members, customs and interpretations but I saw that for most of its members the doctrine added much to their life and provided much comfort. For them, I hope that it continues to do so. It also has been the source of what I perceive to be great problems. I leave it up to each individual to weigh the benefits and downsides and make their choice. Individual freedom is a wonderful thing and carries with it the responsibility for living with our choices. I begin to feel uncomfortable with those who exercise their choice and then feel compelled to put negative labels on the group in order feel better about their choice. One of the characteristics of Christianity has been its ability to change with the time and that is why we have Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Baptists, Anabaptists, Methodists and an uncountable variety of others. The OALC is simply one of those. It isn’t evil and it isn’t a cult. It is simply a belief system and like most beliefs it has its assets and liabilities. Change is usually difficult and often painful should we decide to abandon the group and believe differently. Our new set of values then separates us from the group in at least that way. The pain we experience upon changing is not someone else’s fault. We all get to choose and we all then get to experience accordingly.

  9. As I stated before the OALC does qualify as a cult whether we want to acknowledge that or not. Black is still black even if we want to say it is white. Just because there are choices (which God has allowed)doesn't mean God approves of all these "religions". If you don't follow the Word then Christ has stated that 'he will remove your lampstand (light-Himself)out of its place--unless you repent.' Rev 2:5 It does not matter what you call your religion or what you call your building, if it goes strictly by the Word and not man's traditions then you are approved of by Christ. The five major characteristics of cults are as follows:

    1. They believe that ALL other Christian churches are wrong and that their group has the only real truth about God.
    2. They claim to believe the Bible, but distort its teachings to suit their own peculiar view of mankind. (The Laestadians go by Laestadius not the Bible. Proof - In Spearfish while I was going, the Bible, was only opened 50% of the time and ALWAYS read after Laestadius. Laestadius was ALWAYS read first and NEVER skipped).
    3. They deny that people can be saved by faith in Christ alone. (The Laestadians have to go by all these rules to be saved and have 3 testimonies and sacrifice themselves by looking different and not doing stuff that God does not even say is a sin - If they thought that one could be saved by faith in Christ alone then they would HAVE to include ALL who believe in Christ not just themselves).
    4. They are skillful in using Christian terminology, but they are not talking the same language as biblical Christians.
    5. They reject the trinity. The Laestadians do NOT do this but 4 out of 5 in my book makes them a cult.

    These characteristics of a cult are found in the book "So What's the DIfference?" by Fritz Ridenour and compares at least 20 worldwide religions to Christianity.

  10. Shunning, now that was so enlightening for me to read about this. Felt it since childhood, but never know exactly what it was in words. I am Roman Catholic from my Mother's side with my Father's side of the family OALC. Mother died when I was 13 which caused me to be closer to Father's side of family. But never fully accepted because I refused to change religions. I have even been introduced as a NON-Christain by my Uncle. This caused me to feel very hurt as a child. My youngest sister (3 when Mom died) joined the OALC in her teens. Thanks to reading here, I see that she is "shunning" my youngest daughter. This cycle will stop in my family right now with this generation. We are all good people and love each other very much. We all believe in one Lord Jesus who died for all our sins. Thank you for your writings.

  11. To uper chick:
    You go girl! You sound determined and it WILL stop in your generation in your family if you ask God for help and you work at it! Wow. But it won't stop with people outside of your family unless people become as determined as you. Free2bme put it best when she writes shunning is to protect those that stay. May God be with you. We were and still are being shunned by the Spearfish congregation since we left 5 years ago. When you pass most of these people in Walmart they will pretend not to see you and now I must say I do the same. I did not at first, but what is there to say anymore? I do not know. It is very awkward if you do talk and you can tell they just want to go on. Sad.

  12. I too am a member of OALC and have been most of my life. Those who say that it is a cult are trying to justify their years as members. Usually they leave the church when they have some problem living the life as we are taught. But it is NOT a chuch of laws. I have erred in many ways, and no one has said anything more than "please don't use that word", or "how could you do that and feel free"?
    I admit that to follow the teachings of the church means you have to deny yourself many "worldly" things.
    But how does that hurt me on judgement day, if I am living a Christian life and others who are so angry at the church are not?
    If Bev is correct, that we can live a more carefree life and partake in some earthly pleasures, then I am not hurt since we deny ourselves of most or all of those. But if we are correct and those more liberal are wrong....ahh, then someone has something to answer for.
    Some of the memories verbalized here are understandable...but they are filtered through the confusing childhood years and are not accurate. Others are just wrong headed, and only a face to face discussion with those rebelious ones whould have any hope of settling the issue.
    We miss those who leave and pray for them. But faith is an individual thing and we all have to face each new day of grace to confront the world as it is, not as we wish it would be. May God help us in that!

  13. To the above person here, where did I say we could partake of some of the pleasures of the world? Please direct me to the place. I do say now that we CAN partake of Spearfish Park, Walmart on Sunday, art museums, good movies, music with instruments (they are all through the Bible. One of the men that God loved the most was King David. He played the harp beautifully)plus other harmless things. God wants His children to be happy, shining examples and be a glory unto Him. If one is in such bondage and they can't partake of anything in God's beautiful world they are sober, depressed (many are on medications)people who are inside jealous(some of them)of others who can freely do things that are harmless. I DO live a Christian life, thank you, and yes you will have alot to answer for especially if one is a preacher who has been leading God's children wrong. They are judged first and most severely. Ezek 9:6 God started with the elders here in the sanctuary. Also see 1 Peter 4:17.

  14. To anonymous several posts above here who stated what I said was a downright lie. Though you say here that you know me and love me and my family (even though you basically call me a liar. If you really knew me then you know I deal in truth and facts. If you don't know that then you do not know me) how many times have you shown that love by calling and asking why we don't attend church anymore? Where is the 'love' and forgiveness then? How many people who have left have you personally contacted and profiled as to why they left? Yet you seem to have all the reasons why they left. Who here is putting their name to their posts and who is hiding? Why does one have to hide if what you are saying is truth? Jesus spoke truth and hid His Word from no one. He is our example. I can and DO put my name to whatever I say. If it is not true, I do not say it. Of course, the reason people here have to be anonymous is the repercussions from the church, otherwise, if there were no repercussions from the church then everyone could speak freely under their own name. These repercussions are:
    1. Shunning of the leaver
    2. Shunning of the leaver's family
    3. Judgement of one's life
    4. Judgement to hell
    5. Being called an 'evil worker'
    6. Being accused of leaving for the "easy road, the frivolous glitter, the fame or fortune, (that is almost laughable), the vanity, proudness and liberation the world has to offer" without the accusers even knowing ANYTHING about why one left
    1. Other Laestadians finding out you were on the internet and then
    a. they would think different of you
    b. shun you
    c. shun your family
    d. tell on you
    e. judge you
    To address no. 6 above you are correct that we left for the easy, liberating road, but not in the context of what you mean. Following God's Word is much more freeing than following the dogma of religion. At least I can use my own name here. Christianity is not a religion. It is a reality. Obviously, by your own words, you are not liberated in Jesus Christ because in order to obtain freedom one has to leave the Laestadian religion. Try bringing a bible to church and see the eventual reaction you get. When you open it to follow along with the sermon, they assume that you are trying to trip up the preachers. Shouldn't you be able to bring God's book into God's house without stares and looks? Jesus says His truth will set you free. (John 8:32). Free from what? He means free from the bondage of man's teachings like Laestadius and free from the simple fact of being in the flesh and not perfect so that we can have eternal life. He died for us to give us access to eternal life. We don't need to do ANY other sacrifices in the way we look, dress, etc. God says He 'Judges not according to the appearance, but judges righteous judgement.' (John 7:24) Why do you then judge or think others are going to hell because they have short hair or their dress is too short or too long? Don't say that Laestadians don't do that. I have never said here that we can do everything and that anything goes. Don't change my words and meaning. There are things of this world that we should not partake of like lying, cheating, stealing, using people,etc. These are harmful things that will only bring us trouble. But the harmless things that God NEVER says are sin are not wrong to do. We need do nothing more except believe, by reading the Word, in Christ. It insults Him to try to do more as we are then saying that He did not do a good enough job to get us into heaven. He did everything needed. "WHOSOEVER believes in my son has eternal life" (John 3:16). Does that sound like ONLY the Laestadians? PLEASE wake up to God's Word. Use your brain that He gave you. Overcome all the brainwashing. HE LOVES YOU! He wants you in eternal life. We will be praying for you, although not by name.

  15. Anonymous above says that the preachers ask for the prayers of the congregation before a sermon. They need only to ask God. That is why what is spoken is not from God, because they don't ask Him. It is the truth that they only pick a few 'places' from the Bible and that's it. I was there for almost 50 years so I can say with pretty much precision how many 'places' they choose. Have you counted them yet? Even if they do pick a 'place' they interprete it the way Laestadius sees it and it is usually wrong. You don't need to go into their rituals and ways on this site and how they do everything. Everyone has been there...done that.
    Would you really like to hear how our lives are going? Free, peaceful, full of blessings (better family relationships, wonderful twin grandsons, healthy, active bodies and wonderful wisdom and knowledge from God in Bible study including the archaeological findings that back up the Bible and biblical genealogy). Forgiveness? Why? What have you done to need forgiveness from the ones on this site or the ones who left? Have you asked for it...as God instructs? 'Confess your faults one to another' (James 5:16). That means when you hurt another flesh bodied person.
    So... you have many Bibles. And your point is? Am I supposed to take from that that they have all been read?Have they been opened and read from the beginning to the end? "Precept upon precept, line upon line." (Isaiah 28:10) meaning chapter by chapter and verse by verse? Or have you only read a few of the 'safe' or 'familiar' 'places'? (Not my words but the words of the preachers when asked why they only talk about a few 'places'.) Go to one of my posts above here and see if you have ever been taught even one of those listed there. Why do you not know them? Bottom line...you are not taught to read The Word for yourself because they say you will be using your own intellect. If you can't read it by yourself then when can you read it? Only if a preacher is around? How often is that? Consequently, what they are really saying is not to read the Bible. You are taught to LISTEN to Laestadius' interpretation of the Word which is not wise nor is it truth. He even contradicts the Bible. Here is just one example. Look it up and see for yourself. Laestadius says that Joseph of Arimathaea (Jesus' uncle who took Christ down from the cross) is a representative of natural meekness and dead faith. God says that Joseph of Arimathaea is a just and righteous man waiting for the kingdom of God. (Luke 23: 50-51) Who are you going to believe? Man's teachings or God's? Man's teachings make void the Word of God. "Thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down." (Mark 7:13) Martin Luther says there should be no other books beside the Bible. Laestadius' sermons are another book and because you have deviated from God's Word, it causes division. There have been MANY divisions in the Laestadian religion through the years. You call yourselves Lutherans so there should not be anything wrong with reading his writings. Do you know who he is and what he stands for? I asked a preacher once if Luther could be read freely and he said yes. Do you have any idea who Laestadius is? When he lived? What his life was like? What he stands for? You should investigate that as your eternal life is at stake.
    Please feel free to get in touch with me and we can talk over coffee and tea! I would love it.

  16. You tell it, Bev. The OALC'er won't get specific about what is "wrongheaded." She is content to blow smoke instead of talk facts.

  17. That is the first time I have ever gotten an answer to why Laestadians don't call the ones who leave. Thank you. There are probably a number of other reasons too more than likely. As far as me calling Laestadians, how many do you think would be happy to hear from an 'evil worker'? I have been labeled that by a 'missionary' preacher ONLY because I got into God's Word and encouraged others to do the same. What could be a more loving gesture than to share with another of God's children His Plan and love for us? My house is in order by God's mercy (unmerited favor) through His son Jesus Christ because:
    I met a perfect man who is my friend
    I read His Book and I know how the story ends
    He's my sweet, precious Jesus
    My Savior and my friend
    And this old world can never hurt me again

    If you have never read the Creator's Word, than how would you know if your house is in order or not? If you read His Word than you can be ASSURED that you are NOT going to hell and that your house is in order. I have already asked preachers questions and their answers are: 1 - I didn't say that 2 - I don't recall ever saying that 3 - I didn't mean that or 4 - the answers are not correct according to God's Word. PLEASE quit fantasying that the Laestadian religion is my home and that 'deep down' you think I still think it is right. That is an insult to me and to my LORD and Savior. PLEASE, PLEASE... go to that new website http://oldapostoliclutheran.com and sincerely ask God to help you find the truth. Ask, seek, knock (Matt 7:7). Read what is there as it is lovingly stated.

  18. Some of the posters here are very good with words and are obviously convinced of their own rightousness. Some have been trying to confuse and draw away those who are members of the church. Then when they are made aware that others know what they are doing and they are told that they are doing evil work, they get defensive and angry. Just saying something does not make it a fact, and someone here said that the church is a cult. It is not a cult...though I can understand why someone would say that...if they really wanted to hurt the church.
    The church is called "The Old Apostolic Lutheran Church" because there was a split years ago. The members of the group that split wanted things to be easier for them...they wanted to have more "freedom", and so they left. Many are leaving still for similar reasons.
    Those that stayed did so because the believed that when Jesus said "my word now and forever" that he meant it! Not that we could or should "modernize" every now an then. It is true that the ten commandments are the only "rules" that God left for us. They are, after all, commandments and not suggestions. And some would say that if we follow them and forget about everything else we are "saved". The commandment says "Thou shall not commit adultery". Since fornication is not mentioned, is that not a sin? It surely is! Many things are sin that do not seem to be named as such. But we were given a mind, so that we can figure some of these things out for ourselves.
    The beattitudes talk about what a christian life should be like. Blessed are the humble, the poor in spirit ETC. These all have great meaning for us. But "the place" [there I go using that phrase] that I consider very descriptive and prophetic is "Blessed are you when men (and women) shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you, falsely, .....we are living that most assuredly right now. So much is being said about us that is false. And from those who never have spent some time with us, we can understand...we don't like it but we understand.
    But for someone who was one of us to say it, with certain knowledge that it is untrue...that is hard to understand. But we forgive them anyway. That is what we are taught to do.

    The point I am trying to make, and not doing it well is that members of the church do not feel superior in our faith, but we do feel that there is only one road that leads to heaven. And we are convinced that our faith is the only faith that leads to salvation. But it is faith, not provable knowledge. We can not sit down with any one with anything tangible, except the bible, and "prove" to someone that we are on the right track though we are convinced that we are.
    We all wish that everyone would believe as we do. We are all, each of us from every chuch, children of God. And He alone will determine who shall sit on the left and who on the right.

  19. Do you even know what righteous means as you state that some of us are convinced of our righteousness? It means doing what is right according to God's Word. If one does not read it there is no way one can know how to do what is right. We, in our flesh bodies, are not perfect, but if God sees one reading, studying, praying to Him, and trying to do as He commands He (not me) calls that righteous. Are you doing that?
    Evil work? Do you realize what you wrote here? THINK about what you wrote. Evil work? Pleading with others to read our Creator's Word? That is evil? Evil is saying to believe in Satan and saying maybe that Satan is God. THAT is evil. You are agreeing with what the preacher said here. I would be careful what you call evil. 'Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner of EVIL against you, falsely.' THAT is what you and he are doing to me! Angry? Who is angry? You are assuming again. Have you read the ENTIRE Bible cover to cover to know what HE requires of you? If you haven't then will you do so? Is that evil what I just said?
    There have been not one, but many splits in the Laestadian church. This is in their history books. Usually, the reason for the split is because the group leaving wants to be MORE strict and there is a power struggle about who the preachers should be. Read all the Laestadian books and find out for yourself. You say that the ones leaving today are leaving for the 'easier' way. How many have you contacted and profiled? You did not ask me. I left because God's Word tells us not to stay in a place where His Word is not taught. I aim to please an 'audience of one' to quote from the new, awesome website. If you read the entire Word you will know that the 10 commandments are NOT the only 'rules' (laws) that God left for us. Jesus came not to change one jot or tittle of the law but to fulfill it. (Fulfill the blood ordinances) Matt 5:18 Some of the other laws are the health laws and the food laws. See Leviticus. He tells us exactly what to eat and what not to eat. They are not a matter of sin to damnation, but He is letting His children know how to keep healthy as He created these bodies. We don't do as He says and we get sick and wonder why. He did NOT make all food clean as some people think in the NT. I will discuss why if anyone is interested. bevnmark@rangeweb.net
    What knowledge that I have posted here is untrue? Post it here in detail and show from the Word why it is untrue. If one reads the Word they have proveable knowledge that God is not just saving the Laestadians and sending all others who love Him to hell. Tell me how you interpret Rev 7:9 where a multitude is saved from every tribe, nation, language, etc. If you don't believe that verse then you surely believe in what man says God says and not what God says.

  20. You know what my answer to that will be...they are all those who have died while young, were not responsable because of mental problems and those who became christians while adult. You are quoting only those places that support your point of view. Why don't you take a stab at those places that you and I have heard that support what members of the church believe.
    many are called, but few are chosen
    straight is the gate and narrow is the way
    blessed are you when men (can we presume women too) shall revile you and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you, falsely, for my name sake
    I am not trying to change your mind about anything, and the last thing I want to do is sign on to this web site and see all this anger against a chuch that has you and your husbands family for years. I come here for one reason only. To do my best to counter some of the untruths that you and others propagate.
    You know it is not a cult, and so do your in-laws.
    You know the preachers do no judge others, but to hate the sin and love the sinner. They teach us to resist sin, though we know if we break one commandment we have broken them all. And yes, many things are preached as detrimental to our souls, but some of the things you and others have mentioned are put on these pages to make us out to be something you know we are not. And then they call us "toots". I have read posts decrying labeling and name calling, and then those same posters start calling us names and labeling us.
    Jesus said that he spoke in parables so that his word would be hid from the wise and the prudent and revealed unto babes....that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
    And for all the uninformed..it is not shunning in the sense that people think of, as used by the Amish. When someone is not living a christian life their family is advised to not allow their children to have contact with them, for fear they will be influnced in sinful ways. They are not told to have no contact with them.
    I have a few strays in my family, and some are pretty frisky, and no one has ever told me not to have contact with them. The word "shun" is never used!
    Gods Peace be with you.

    That is still the highest greeting that man can wish on another.

  21. To dispel untruths:
    You KNOW I have not only quoted the parts of the Bible that support what I think on these 2 blogs and anyone on here would support that.
    You can say black is white or white is black all you want, but that does not change the facts that whatever definition you go by for a cult the Laestadians fit almost all of them.
    The preachers DO judge! I have heard the preachers myself right in Spearfish say at someone's funeral they are not going to heaven as they do not have the "3" testimonies (??? Where is that in the Bible?) That is not judging? He took over God's job. Did he go and ask everyone in church if they would give a testimony for this man? I wasn't asked. One of the preachers told a woman I know that he can tell what is in her heart by the way she looks. No judgement there of course. How can he tell then what is in a man's heart as they do not have to look different?
    "Many are called" (to be servants of God and spread the Word), but "few are chosen" (meaning one has a choice whether to read His Word or not and if you don't then HE can't use you as you do not know HIS truths). How many people can you name that you can have a deep Biblical discussion with? Very few! Hence "few are chosen".
    As I stated above in another answer the Laestadians are the ones who are falsely accusing and judging and reviling the ex-oalcer's not the other way around. We are falsely called 'evil workers' and shunned. Of course the word 'shun' is not used outwardly! Wake up! It is all inward and not talked about but you at least admit that they are told to keep their children away. (Shun them). Ask yourself why you cannot use your name here openly. That right there should give you a clue. You are not free to. I am.
    The 'babes' Jesus is talking about are the Christ people who know His Word and not the leaders of the religious organizations who 'think' they have wisdom to lay down rules and judge. There is no way one can 'see and hear' if they don't read God's Word. Would you you know what is in any other book without reading it? People would think that you were nuts if you were commenting on a book if you had not read all of it.
    Since we ex's are not going by the 'one true church's' doctrine in your estimation then you should not be greeting me with God's peace. See 2 John 10-11 -- 'If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine (God's Word - which you think you are into and we are not), receive him not into your home, neither bid him God speed (peace): For he that bideth him God speed (peace) is partaker of his evil deeds". If you give aid and comfort to the enemies of Christ then you become one of them. Heaven forbid! I DO admit that I AM trying to change your mind about letting your Bible just sit there and not reading it all from beginning to end. If you love GOD, then you will read His Word. Get into it and then let's discuss it. It is exciting!!

  22. I see here that I did not comment on your first statement in your above post. You probably went to a Laestadian preacher for that answer, but it is wrong. It is ANYONE who has overcome. Of course you will stick to what a 'man' has told you instead of reading what God wants to tell you. He LOVES you!! Read His love letter to you!

  23. Some of the above sounds amazingly like text from a Rev.(?) Arnold Murray sermon.

  24. In John 7:24 the verse was about circumcision. I don't think anyone can stretch that all the way to unacceptable dress.

  25. I realize that the previous verses of John 7:24 are talking about circumcision, but the concordance says that the word 'appearance' (3799) is the external (outward), appearance, countenance, face. Why would that not refer to outward appearance? It probably also means that one is not to judge only by what it LOOKS like is happening, outwardly (like how bad it would look doing a work on the Sabbath - circumcision) because man does not always know the full story.

  26. In reference to your earlier posts where you have said that the preachers only speak about or explain "11 or 12" places in the bible..that is not true and you are well aware of it. I could find 10 in John and Corinthians in 10 minutes.
    Also you say we only refer to "what Lestadius says". Wrong again. You know that a text is taken virtually every sunday, and the preachers speak on that.
    I think you have these feelings because you are offended by some of the language (which was admittedly rough, but necessary for who he was speaking to)in those old recorded sermons, that we are thankful to have so that we do not do as so many chuches do; change what they preach as sin over time. Look how many consider abortion and homosexuality to be "acceptable" today that did not 20 years ago. You know that we read those old sermons for that reason primarily, and use them as a reference to what we were in the past, what we are today and what we should be in the future.
    If you don't know that you were not listening.
    By the way, don't you think your response to my greeting of Gods peace refers to a place in the bible the suggests, condones or even demands shunning?

  27. So are you saying that the Laestadians DO shun then and are now justified? How do you know who to shun though if you don't know what God says in His Word? There may be many people that you are shunning that are into His Word. How would you know? We are just going over and over the same stuff. I have listened to the Laestadian church and what they have to say for 40 years or so. It is not like I do not know what I am talking about. If you don't like the truths that are said on this blog then it is your choice not to be on them. I have not seen one thing on this blog that has been said by an ex-er that is not true. Who are you anyway? Why can you not post who you are? Again, it speaks for itself. You as a Laestadian are not free. You have seen my email address on here or the other blog. Why not email me? What is there to fear? Let's talk about God and His wonderful Word and His glorious Plan for us.

  28. As the queen bee of this site, I'm impatient with the personal attacks against Bev by the anonymous OALC defender. If you have issues with Bev, call her. If you have something valuable to offer, comment on a current post (and use your spell-check, for Pete's sake).