Women in the Old Apostolic Lutheran Church

The comments below were made at the wiki site: How to Leave the Old Apostolic Lutheran Church, a site which is regularly deleted by anonymous hackers, then restored by Wiki editors. It is now the first site one gets by googling the topic, no doubt because of this negative attention.

I went to the OALC for most of my childhood and after my confirmation (which I did for my grandparents) I was out of there. Now that I am 17 I can honestly say that it was one of the best decisions of my life. If I ever run into members I get dirty looks. I'm from the west coast and I have honestly watched my sister (who is still a member) throw her life away. My parents did not want her to get married at age 18 but the preachers did. So now my sister has two kids and has no plans to stop having babies. Most of the kids there have little ambition on life. There main goals are graduate high school and go to work. No college. No nothing. I really view that church as a cult. Growing up in that religion never fit. Even at a young age I was questioning it. Why should ALL of my friends have to be from the church? Why can't I watch TV? Why can't I listen to music? I could never get real solid answers to any of these questions. I believe in God and love God but I WILL NOT believe that every one of my "worldly" friends and my relatives who have died that were not a member of the OALC church are in hell. That doesn't fly with me. Another thing that is ever present in that church is the RACISM. I have heard from so many different members that " BLACK IS THE CURSED RACE ". I strongly believe in equality among races.

Reply to 1991128x
On 09:29, 10 March 2009
1991128x said:
I thank God I got out of there. I really do. I can actually have a normal life instead of perform manual labor all day and come home to a wife and 13 children. I look at my friends who are still there and wish them nothing but the best. I have always believed that you should do what makes you happy and if they are happy with that lifestyle that is almost EXPECTED of them then good for them. When I left and I would run into OALC members out in the big bad "world" I'd get a great big condensing talk about how I'm "LOST" and "CONFUSED". Oh I can also remember my grandmother saying one time that a woman had spoken out about leaving the church and died in a car accident a few months later. She said "Isn't it funny how God takes care of everything?" I don't think it's that "funny". I can say FROM EXPERIENCE that the OALC I attended was overflowing with the most hypocritical, judgmental, and close minded people I have ever met. If you want to leave this CULT. GO. My best advice would be to just ride out. Get far far far far far far away and live your own life according to you. 

Reply to 1991128x
On 20:16, 10 March 2009
Ledastray said:
Thank you so much for the above comments - having other people feeling the wrongs of the OALC keep me encouraged that I am doing the right thing. Some friends have been to talk with me and expressed their "worry" for me - I simply said if I want to feel closer to God and that I feel that is missing in the OALC how is THAT WRONG? No answer. The biggest problem I am having at this point is that I do have 6 wonderful kids who are caught in the middle. I have spent a lot of time talking with them (the younger 3 will be ok due to age) and one of my kids said "but mom if you want to go somewhere else - that is Dead Faith" - woa. I asekd her if she knew what that meant. And she said.......no. See? It is all about the church having ALL the answers you need. Just don't ASK any questions. And if you do - that is the devil causing doubts and you are being disobedient and going to hell. Unless you ask forgiveness - to other men - not God. Members will tell you "how can you confess to God - he already knows what you did." It's not confessing simpletons - it's REPENTING. My heart is breaking over the lies I feel that I have been told there. I want to know God's love - and get to heaven any way I can. That is what we are all trying to do. Just get to heaven. How is that wrong? Because I am not at the OALC church? If I sit there with a bitter heart because I know that I am missing something - how is that RIGHT?

Reply to Ledastray
On 00:31, 16 March 2009
71.10.71.33 said:
I pray for those of you trying to leave the church. I work in a community of predominately OALC members, and it breaks my heart that these children mainly the girls are taught that being a mom is the only thing for them to do. Yes being a mom is one of the best things about being a woman, but there are so many other things you can do as a woman too. Also there is more for men to do than trades work, in todays economy everyone needs to be educated because trades work in not going to always put food on the table especially tables with 6 or more kids and a mom who is not allowed to work. I pray for all the famalies but especially the children and the women that they will somehow come to know what they CAN do!!
So those looking at leaving, find a "worldly" you can trust and they will help you!! God will help you.

Reply to 71.10.71.33
On 22:43, 16 March 2009
Ledastray said:
Thank you for your input - it is very enouraging to everyone who reads this but is too scared to comment. I have been fretting over what you stated above - the teachings that my little girls are learning - that you are ONLY a woman. I don't want them to grow up and experience the emptiness I have. There are so many unspoken "rules" that degrade, belittle and supress women. As well as those that are preached. We are never asked to join in a discussion if and when a Bible is brought out. We are not allowed to attend the business meetings at the church (which by the way are held on SUNDAY)and if a vote of hands is asked for in church? Your husband will raise his for you. A womans work is in the kitchen with 10 kids under her feet. I have heard men boast that they have never changed a diaper. Women are made to feel SO unworthy. But then they will tell you that is how you SHOULD feel - "we are nothing" they say and say again. If you feel this way, then that is a good thing because then you are not full of sin. (Just medicated because of depression).

The Difference Between Singing and Joiking

Thanks to Stranger for this link!

Laestadian Communion

I've had a request for a thread on Holy Communion as practiced in Laestadian churches. Who serves? Who is eligible? What is used for bread and wine? How do the Laestadian churches differ from each other in honoring this sacrament?

"I'm a Finnish guy . . . "

By googling "Laestadian," I discovered a new blog called Trying to Live Free (hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery) that was started last December, apparently by a Finnish guy seeking pen pals. His first post:

I´m a Finnish guy. My English skills are limited. My backround is SRK (in America LLC).I want to share experiences with others, who have left the LLC or other Laestadian brances.I haven´t lose my faith, and I often notise myself think like laestadians. I have visited in America 5 times in my life. I know the culture and love America.

I´d like to get American friends more, despite in witch Laestadian branch.

Go visit his blog and say terve! Unfortunately I can't seem to post a link, so you'll have to google it.

http://eudokimos-tryingtolivefree.blogspot.com/

Forbidden Fruit

Seems there is a new Swedish-Finnish film called "Forbidden Fruit" that features a Laestadian theme, or perhaps more accurately, an ex-Laestadian theme. I wonder if the film is based on a book, and whether it is woefully exaggerated. Of course what seems plausible in the film may depend on the how much one knows about Laestadianism. As many of you have no doubt experienced, non-Laestadians tend to disbelieve the tenets of the religion, as if those ideas belong to an earlier century and couldn't possibly be embraced by modern, 21st century people. Heh. Little do they know!

I look forward to hearing reviews from our European readers. Meanwhile, here is Variety magazine's write-up.

Two 18-year-olds from apostolic Lutheran families wind up sampling "Forbidden Fruit" in Finnish director Dome Karukoski's ("Home of the Dark Butterflies") melodramatic coming-of-ager. Offering a superficial look at the strict fundamentalist beliefs of his country's 110,000-strong Laestadian community, a sect that takes the Bible literally and prohibits contraceptives, television, alcohol, rhythmic dancing and premarital sex, pic is always watchable but seldom entirely plausible or emotionally satisfying. A domestic theatrical release is slated for mid-February; fests and tube constitute best bets for export.

Sassy brunette Maria (Amanda Pilke) leaves her repressive home in Northern Ostrobothnia to experience the pleasures of the flesh in Helsinki. She figures she can always repent and be welcomed back to the fold ("All your sins forgiven in the name and blood of Christ") per Laestadian liturgy. When community elders dispatch Maria's prissy blonde best friend Raakel (Marjut Maristo) to save her from eternal damnation, they fail to consider Raakel's own vulnerabilities. Thesping throughout tends toward the histrionic. Tuomo Hutri's fine widescreen camerawork does a better job depicting the capital's worldly temptations than Aleksi Bardy's script. Costumes and makeup sometimes feel at odds with the story.

I had to laugh at that last comment. I don't know how 18-year old Laestadian girls dress in Ostrobothnia, but a reviewer would find the attire of most OALC girls QUITE at odds with religious modesty.