"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Do NOT Unto Them As They're Doing Unto You

Thursday, April 16, 2009

Do NOT Unto Them As They're Doing Unto You

In a comment thread that was getting out of control, I felt compelled to delete an exchange between two "anonymouses" (please give yourself monikers, people! or risk deletion!) that was tit-for-tat.

Anonymous One said (essentially) "We in the OALC will pray for you heathens" and Anonymous Two responded "No, we'll pray for YOU, loser."

Now, now, now, children! (In my grandma's Finnish accent.)

We are all familiar with prayer aggression, and it isn't nice. Or Christian, for that matter. I've closed comments on that thread, and invite you all to talk on this one, about anything that interests you. (Has anyone read the latest Newsweek?)

Just play nicely because I won't be around to supervise. I'm off for a little vacation with my sisters and looking forward to long hours of conversation, good food, and walks on the beach.

Wish me fair skies!


  1. Oh, come on! I was just trying to be a little sarcastic :) Is so funny when OALC members come on this site and think that by posting a comment like that, that those who have left will all of a sudden be enlightened and come running back. LOL

  2. I thought that come back was perfect. It made the point exactly because the pro-OALC comment comes from the place of little if any knowledge of other churches. It did not sound like tit for tat to me. But that's just me.

  3. Reverend Ole is the pastor of the local Norwegian
    Lutheran Church,and Pastor Sven is the minister of the
    Swedish Covenant Church across the road. One day they
    were seen pounding a sign into the ground, that said:

    As a car sped past them, the driver leaned out his window and yelled,"Leave me alone, you Skandihoovian religious nuts!"

    From the curve they heard screeching tires and a big splash...

    Rev. Ole turns to Pastor Sven and asks,

    "Do ya tink maybe da sign should yust say, Bridge Out?"

  4. LLLreaders opinion on "sarcasm" I didn't see your "replay" of the post from the OALC member as being sarcastic. Hearing the same words from the other side just makes the power of words more obvious. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic when I reported on the Carolyn Jessop book--the irony of the same words being used to control the women in that cult wern't lost on me--"the world is wicked", "you will lose your salvation if you don't follow the leaders teachings", and so on. It's the same stuff! I don't see it as funny though when someone comes here and talks about how the devil makes people leave the OALC. I see it as scary and sad. To believe that salvation can be lost in the blink of an eye--that the dark forces are so strong that we can be wisked away from our loving Lord's salvation is truly horrifying. God is strong, He is there, His hand is on us--and we are safe in His arms.

  5. I was just speaking from the heart about one's soul salvation. People in the world don't want to hear those harsh words. They would rather attend a church that makes them feel good inside and fits their lifestyle.

  6. LLL tells us that we should rebuke sin and let the unbelievers know that they may be on the path to destruction. I remember one of the sermons stating that we should cry out to them who are sleeping in the bed of sin. Awake them so on judgement day they cannot say that they were not warned. A christian wants to warn them to not go headlong into Hell.

  7. LLLreader sez: God bless you both. I want nothing but good things for the two previous posters. We are to be our brother's keepers, just as God instructs. I believe you are sincere in your concern for my soul's salvation--just as I pray for your salvation. My church instructs that we are to follow the rules set out in the Bible. We are not to commit sin, but when we inevitably do, we are to pray for forgiveness. We are to lead a life that our beloved Lord would approve of. My church does not condone sin. My church does not say you can just go out and do whatever you want, without regard to whether it is right or wrong. The issue between us, Dear Brother or Sister, is that I believe that the OALC has come to put rules set up by some men on a equal, and sometimes higher, level those set forth by the Bible. The bible is the final answer. By following the man made rules which are so important to the believers in the OALC, you can easily be lead away from the teachings of the Lord. What some other man calls out as sin may not be sin in the eyes of God. There is not a man alive who has the right to determine my salvation. That's in God's hands. The idea that those that have left just want to leave and commit sin of very kind is just not true. I left because I don't want to have people interfering with my direct contact with the Lord. My prayers to Him do not have to be filtered through some other person. I too am speaking from the heart. We believe differently, but we believe in the same God. So, God bless both of us .

  8. Okay, I'm back from vacation! Wonderful time. Fresh perspectives. I apologize for being overly sensitive AND for being a scold but PLEASE can you give yourself a nickname, so we can follow who is talking? You don't need to register. You can still post as anonymous, but do as LLLReader does and let us know who you in the first line of your comment.

    Thanks, peeps.

  9. The problem with some of the comments about sin (as posted above), is that so many churches have a manmade list based on surface and trivial things which, in my opinion, are nothing but wanting control over every facet of people's lives. And talking about those who are not compliant is accepted behavior under the guise of "oh, isn't it so sad about so-and-so". That's gossip, and that's a sin.

  10. Ex-Falc: I am curious about your husbands upbringing in the cult. Does he have contact with his family anymore? There are so many parallels in leaving a cult like he was in and leaving a LLL church. Interesting how similiar. I bet you and him can really relate. I am so happy you and him have found a loving, caring, non-legalistic church. It makes a big difference doesn't it!
    Isn't it interesting how current members can say how we feel and why we left. We just want to do things that are "sin" and to be in a church that fits our lifestyle. They have no clue! Very sad! I love that Lord and I do not want to sin. That upsets him! Not saying I don't, because I'm human and I do. Thankfully he is forgiving. I like all the others who have left do not agree with some of the teachings. Period. Its not that we want to go sin. But I suppose that accusation is needed for them to base their beliefs on the concept that they alone are right. To accept the fact that there is something wrong with the church, and not us, would be unfathomable.

  11. I was just thinking how sad it is that God is being misrepresented by people in cults and legalistic churches. How very sad. How people are getting hurt in a place that is supposed to be a refuge for the hurting. Makes me angry really. The good thing is though that there are many churches who preach the truth and who are truly modeling Jesus to the world. It makes my heart sing to see people serve the Lord by administering to the needs of people. I never saw that growing up in the LLC. We never did any outreach to the community or people around us. It was stay away from those people. Seriously, is that modeling Jesus? Hardly! What do you do? Can't change people, only love them as Christ loves us and pray for them.

  12. Ex-FALC says,

    My husband is very close to his family. He has a very difficult time meeting friends out of his family. I think he is scared to get to know other people because he is worried about what they might think of the way he was raised. It's kind of hard to explain to someone that you have 30 brothers and sisters...etc. It's frustrating because I want him to meet "normal" people out here so he can let some of the past go. Also, I get tired of being around his family because I can't handle some of the ignorant world views they have. I tell him all the time that it's not his fault how he was raised. For this reason, I am really open about polygamy and talking about how he was raised to others I know. I think one of the most important things for us is to be open about it and talk freely about how we feel about it. Before we got married, we had many discussions about it because I needed to make sure that he would not have plans 5 years down the road to make me live polygamy. I also have to be careful about how I approach the issue around his family. Some of them still strongly believe in it. Sometimes, I get so frustrated being around those people, especially the women in a polygamy situaition, seeing them suffer, but the truth is that they're the ones stupid enough to force the suffering upon themselves!!

    It brings some interesting challenges for me because I am not sure how much I want my kids exposed to some of my in-laws lifestyle. The interesting thing is that the religion seems to be falling apart so now many of the young people are confused as to what they should believe. Many of them have turned to alcohol and partying. Unfortunately, the parents have told the kids not to go to college and in many cases, they don't even finish high school. Education I think is the best way to get rid of some of this ignorant worldview but the changed needs to start with the parents because they need to encourage it to make it happen.

  13. Ex-FALC, thanks for sharing your story. I understand your husband's hesitation to tell others about his family. I'm often that way, but I know most people (of all kinds and histories) have relatives of which they think: "they're nuts but I love them anyway."

    That's an okay place to be.

    You say "Education I think is the best way to get rid of some of this ignorant worldview" and I agree. Even when parents discourage education, there are other influences in a child's life and we can, in our small spheres of influence, be good role models. We can demonstrate that intellectual curiosity is not lethal, but normal and healthy.

    I hope this website continues to help people who are asking questions and fighting back fear. Thank you all for participating.

  14. Education is important but choose carefully. The College seen is the extreme opposite. Liberalsim is just as dangerous as religeous extremism.