"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: We ALL Need Leadership Training

Friday, June 21, 2013

We ALL Need Leadership Training

This is one of the best talks I've heard on the issue. Please give it a listen. May it embolden all of us, men and women, to challenge disrespect when we hear it or see it.



  1. Thanks for posting this. I agree wholeheartedly, how there needs to be men in power to take this up. Or perhaps brave men.

    Which leads to the apathy, we found when we approached the leaders within the FALC. What struck me most, is how they did not appear to believe they had a role.

    The bystander training is where we are lacking, when we believe like he said, that we can stop this at the moment of abuse....and instead, it is the daily little things, we need to challenge people on.

    And, I have always loved the line about the silence of our friends.

    Where are the strong men of the FALC on Abuse Issues?

  2. Beth, the speakers are usually picked by their male peer friends at a church meeting after having proven themselves as 'junior' speakers at home meetings and things like that. They are definitely not picked because they are unpopular. Rather, they have been 'observed' all their lives and their adherence to the church doctrine and conformity to the Finnish Apostolic cultural expectations is of paramount importance. Even if they had a bout of rebellion as a teen that is all forgiven as long as they repented and came back to the church with a sense of renewed fervor. Given the informal method of picking speakers by peer groups of like minded friends, I would hardly expect the speakers to begin speaking out against abuse. Old AP

    1. I agree, that's pretty much how they choose the speakers.
      But in my former church, F.A.L.C., in my experience they don't follow any sort of Christ or church doctrine. Rather they rely solely on popularity. There is little or no repentance and a high amount of false forgiveness.
      In the F.A.L.C. there was only one minister who ever spoke out about the need to address the issues on domestic violence.
      (spousal abuse, child sexual abuse, elder abuse etc...).
      He did preach from the pulpit on this at least twice,(and i still have the taped sermons) and consequently he was lied about and ran out of the church.

  3. Wow, that is very insightful OLD AP, it is like the elders are picking not the outspoken or ones who are 'hard to manage', but the ones who have stayed within the lines.

    The construction of the churches pillars are put together with adult males who have shown their awe and respect to the men already in power....and not to the men who are not like them. Interesting.
    I guess, I hadn't thought of how the churches top is made.

    So, in that environment, how will we get men to stand against the leaders and start this conversation?

  4. I realized that those who were picked as speakers were those men who might be termed the most 'average' in the fold. With regards to your questions of "...how will we get men to stand against the leaders and start this conversation?" In my opinion it will be the women who will get the conversation started as the men (speakers included) will need their wife's permission to do so as that seems to be how the real mechanics of the organization worked. Old AP

  5. Sadly it seems like the fastest way to get ANYONES attention is if this situation happens to their own child.

    I have "started this conversation" with some men in the church and they basically think the issue is a personal one, saying "if it hasn't happened to your kids then don't worry about it" or "I don't believe the preachers would harbor a sexual predator, I have to see it to believe it"

    "is it nothing to you, all you who pass by?" lam 1

    If a lion was roaming a bunner neighborhood, you bet they would think it's their issue and they wouldn't be passive about anothers eye witness account but would take it upon themselves to go and search for the lion.

    Oh and how would it be if they found out the lion was a preachers own pet! Bred, Fed and nurtured by the preachers own hand! Let out of the cage to maul the children time and time again.

    It IS our issue! And if the men aren't brave enough, you bet your butt there are a few courageous woman who will...Just stay out of the way.... on second thought, could you pack our lunch, we might be gone past meal time.

    -my view

  6. My View, For them to "see it with their own eyes" it will most likely Never happen. Taking the word from a child isn't something they are used to doing, and in sexual abuse cases, that is who will be reporting. Either a child today, or talking about your past childhood.

    I am counting on the women to rise. And, I love your saying " Pack your own lunch".

    Women changing the world one family at a time!

  7. Did anyone here attend Finn Fest in Hancock/Houghton on the weekend? I hear there was a lecture on Laestadius. I would love to know what the speaker talked about.


  8. It took me a couple times of glossing by this video before I finally stopped and watched it. When I did watch it just now, I realize how ironic this was. I saw the title of the video, probably thought on a sub-conscious level: well I don't abuse women, this doesn't apply to me. When in reality the video was almost exclusively for people just like me.

    The video really hit on a philosophy idea I have been thinking about lately; be the change you want to see in the world. In my mind, the number one change you can make in the world is in yourself. It's so easy to point at other people or groups and say they are doing this wrong or believing incorrectly. But this is just purely a distraction from having to examine our own actions or beliefs, where making a change would actually be possible.

    Responding to the video on a more personal and church level, growing up in the Laestadian culture is not exactly a breeding ground for leaders. Obviously, the social conditioning of just fitting in and not rocking the boat is even more intense than in society at large. It can be extremely hard to speak up in a peer group of like-minded males when you know the reaction will not be positive. This is exactly how the viewpoint of casual racism and sexism is perpetuated.

  9. I know this is old, just wondering if the anon w taped sermons is willing to share them? Curious

    1. Absolutely. Leave your name and email/contact info with Free. I will let her know to expect it and leave her mine to pass it along. Then I can contact you.
      ps that was me in the anon comment above, i forgot to sign.

    2. Thanks! Curious