"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Communion, Laestadian Style

Thursday, September 24, 2009

Communion, Laestadian Style

Some recent comments from Pyhä got me thinking about Laestadian communion again. :-)

See also Sacrament of Communion, by cvow, and Laestadian Communion, by free2bme for previous posts and comments on this topic.

One thing that I didn't see described in the previous posts was a detailed description of the communion service, which I will now do from an ALC standpoint.

These services were always long. Typically an ALC church service lasts an hour, but subjectively seems a lot longer. This is because the congregation plays such a passive role, and the sermon lasts such a long time (at least thirty minutes, often longer.) Because so much time is dedicated to the sermon, very little time is dedicated to anything else. The typical order of service would include an opening hymn, a prayer, another hymn (accompanied by passing the collection plate), the sermon, another hymn, and you're done.

The sermons were generally incoherent and spontaneous, because writing the sermon in advance was thought to "quench the Spirit" and King James phrasing was not always limited to the Bible reading, but also to the pastor's own utterances. Even as an adult with an education I still often cannot discern the point of any given sermon. At best, it is a stream-of-consciousness free association of Laestadian theological and moral sentiments.

Communion was not every Sunday. It was typically once a month, and on special occasions such as Holy Week. Communion added time to the service, as it was generally tacked on the end of the hour-long service described above. Depending on how many people were in attendance, this could add another 30-45 minutes to the service. Confirmation Sunday (worthy of a blog post in its own right) was a marathon in pew-warming, with larger than usual attendance, all the confirmation specific stuff, plus the long sermon, plus communion!

The Communion part of the service started with the congregation reciting the Apostle's Creed. Then we'd launch into "O Jumalan Karitsa, joka pois otat maailman synnit, armahda meille päälemme..." Sometimes we kids would call it "the Mailman song." I never knew this was the "Agnus Dei" or what any of the words meant until I was an adult and left the church. All I knew was that it was a moment of great solemnity, with the a capella drone of the words as the elders in the congregation slowly made their way up to the communion rail.

I had mixed feelings about Communion. On the one hand I liked it because it was a more interesting service. We got to sing more, and there was always the possibility that a member of the congregation would stand up before us and publicly confess their sins, sometimes very emotionally with cries and tears. Usually they were pretty general about what they had done, but once a man confessed to cheating on his wife in front of the whole congregation! One would hope that he had talked to his wife about this beforehand, but no matter what the offense, the congregation would always respond "you are forgiven in the name and shed blood of Jesus Christ." Whether this is touching or trivializes the whole idea of forgiveness and absolution I do not know. As far as I know there was never any pastoral follow-up regarding what got confessed in front of the congregation.

On the other hand, Communion was an anxiety producing event for me. In confirmation class I had learned that if you take communion "unworthily" you were "drinking damnation unto oneself." Therefore it was very important to make sure that you had no unconfessed sins (confessed to God, or to the confessor, according to Luther's Small Catechism). I would usually try to solve this problem by doing a blanket "forgive me for everything" prayer (in addition to specific items) right on the rail before taking the elements. I did this in my head, not out loud to everyone. :) Yet I also worried that this wasn't good enough, and felt guilty about confessing for the same things over and over again. It was as if a slate of sins would accumulate through the month, then they would get "wiped clean" after confessing and taking communion. But then the sins would start accumulating again, sometimes moments after having them wiped away!

In addition to the theological/existential anxiety of Laestadian communion, there was also the logistical anxiety. Typically old people would commune first, followed by "the youth" contingent, and then all other adults. Young children were not allowed to receive. It was entirely up to you to decide when to come forward, and as a teen I was often worried that if I went up "too soon" or "too late" that there would not be room for me at the rail and I'd look like an idiot. I'd have to time my approach just right to make sure that I could get a spot at the rail before it filled up, but arrive too soon and you'd have to stand there before the previous group got dismissed.

Once at the rail and in the kneeling position, the elements were consumed in the most submissive posture I've ever seen in any church. We weren't allowed to touch either the communion cup or the wafers of bread, instead keeping our heads bowed until the presider came by, when we would tilt our heads upward with our mouths open, very much like a baby bird looking for a worm. The wafer would be placed in our mouths, and the wine would be poured from the communion cup directly into our mouths as well. Given how submissive this posture is, is it any surprise that there are no female Laestadian pastors or communion assistants?

There were times when all of this needless anxiety made we want to skip communion altogether. But if you were in attendance, eligible, and didn't take communion, it would prompt questions from the pastor and whispers from the rest of the congregation. So not partaking was not an option. With communion only once a month, though, one could arrange to be out of town, or sick, and manage to go a few months without the sacrament.

I attend a church with a liturgical tradition now, and as such the Eucharist is the high point, climax, and focal point of every Sunday service. There is a feeling of celebration, and an expectation of meeting Christ in the sacrament. I can't imagine trying to avoid communion now, and there is no anxiety surrounding it. I still take communion seriously due to my upbringing, but I can't imagine placing the strictures on it that we did as Laestadians, and I still don't really understand the Laestadian approach to communion.

39 comments:

  1. The church service and the communion service, even the posture in which communion is taken, sounds exactly like an LLC service.
    -Eyeswideopen

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  2. Yeah, this post brings back memories :) It hasn't been that long ago, but I'd forgotten what it was like, and you got the details just right, down to the "timing" issue. Usually there was an empty bench near the front, and people would sit down there if the alter filled up before they got a spot. People always preferred the benches near the back, and this custom made the parable of the arrogant wedding guest confusing to me.

    I also remember feeling guilty for not being able to pay attention to the incoherent sermons and droning hymns.

    It was at the communion rail that I finally realized the whole LLL system was dead for me. That realization prompted me to move on and stop the charade I'd been living for some time before that, where I continued the motions, even though I didn't really believe in the system anymore.

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  3. I have not been to a Sunday service in the OALC church for over 30 years. The collection plate was never passed. Is it passed today? I admired that.
    People gave money to an elder privately in an envelope. The collection plate was frowned upon because of Jesus entering the temple and being angry that is was being used as a market place.

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  4. Tomte,

    Thank you for your fascinating description. It's certainly possible that I've been in a Laestadian church at the time of communion, but I don't remember it, as I would have been a rather young boy attending with my grandmother.

    What my parents tell me, though, is that there was a fair amount of wailing (I don't know why, or if that was at communion in particular or maybe another service), and that most sermons focused on "the precious drops of blood."

    I find your description of your inner sense of sinfulness especially interesting. As you no doubt know, it was this same inner sense of sinfulness that led Martin Luther, who seemed to have an obsessive personality among his many gifts, to reject what he perceived as the legalism of the Catholic Church. He would make long lists of sins to confess, and then after absolution worry lest he forgot one. So, he would go back to confession and repeat the same thing again creating such a vicious cycle that he was nearly paralyzed by fear of God's judgment. This, ultimately, is what led him to seek a "gracious God," and thus the Reformation.

    It is interesting that a church that seeks to follow Luther can have the same effect on one trying his or her best to be faithful. No doubt this is not limited to the Laestadian churches, but it certainly seems to be a reality for many in them.

    It is a blessing that you have found a church home that allows you to know the joy and grace of God's love in a way that allows you to live the abundant life that Jesus desires for all of us.

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  5. In many regards the Laestadians are more Catholic than Lutheran (and in some other regards more Calvinistic than Lutheran).

    ---

    The way of distributing communion described above is the traditional Lutheran (at least Nordic Lutheran, the German Lutheran might have other traditions) way of doing it, on your knees at the rail, wait, open your mouth, the bread is put in, wait, open your mouthg again, the wine is poured in.

    However, during the last few decades it has become more common in the Nordic Lutheran churches to use separate cups for the wine and to put the bread in your mouth with your own hand. This is the case in Finland and Norway, but I think the Lutheran church in Sweden is more traditional in this regard.

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    As for baby birds being fed by mother birds, what do you say about the way of distributing communion in my Eastern Orthodox church. The communion (under both species simultaneously) is fed by a spoon from one chalice. :) You cross your arms over your chest (hands on shoulders), open your mouth, say your name, the priest puts the communion in your mouth with a spoon, the assistant wipes your mouth with a cloth, you kiss the chalice and go.

    ---

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  6. Wow, that is so close to how I remember communion in the LLC. I had those same anxieties, going up at the wrong time, that they'd spill juice on me, that I'd trip and get laughed at, that I'd miss the girls "rail", and end up with all the boys and then look like a fool. Usually I would make up an excuse to miss communion service, so I actually didn't go much. I could probably count the times on both hands between 2002 when I was old enough for communion, and 2005 when I was old enough to leave. Then there is also the tradition where all the youth go to their parents for forgiveness before going up..maybe it's just the LLC that does that. I never did, I just got in line and got it over with asap. Then at the end just before leaving the alter, men would give their head a little bow, and women would courtsy (sp?). I always found this really awkward because you'd be trying to get your timing right so that you didn't courtsey at a completely different time than everyone else. Plus everyone dressed up so fancy, and when I was a teenager I didn't do "dress-up". I would wear black pants, a white hoody, and skate shoes, just because I didn't own any dress clothes (not for lack of trying on my Moms part, I just didn't like dress clothes). Of course people talked, but I didn't really think God cared what I wore.

    Anyways..just thought I'd share my experiance...

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  7. When I attended the High Mass at Uppsala Cathedral in Sweden (the chief cathedral of the Lutheran Church of Sweden) communion was done pretty much as we do in the Episcopal Church, and in some Evangelical Lutheran Church in America congregations. Although, there was no rail used, just a few stations. The bread was wafers and I believe they used the common cup, which we sipped from in the usual fashion. Obviously this isn't necessarily indicative of what all parishes do in the Swedish church, but it felt very "normal" to me.

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  8. "I attend a church with a liturgical tradition now, and as such the Eucharist is the high point, climax, and focal point of every Sunday service."

    So is it for all laestadians in Europe. They can go every Sunday morning to the Holy Communion to their own Chruch, before they attend the prayer house. I don’t think the normal Lutheran communion differs from the Anglican?

    Some go more often than others to the Church.

    The communion at laestadian services are always more living than when other Christians celebrate. Many find the laestadian communion a touching experience, but on other hand other may find it uncomfortable, and thus not attend.

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  9. I wouldn't say the laestadians communion is in any way more "living" than when Christians have communion...

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  10. "laestadians communion is in any way more "living"

    It depend perhaps whose communion you attend, but in the ALC equalients in Europe, people often cry at the communion, because they really regret their sins.

    Also the tradition to ask family members, relatives and friends for forgiveness, makes the communion at laestadian services quite chaotic. It’s not easy to find the person you search when there are thousands waiting in the line at big services.

    Many times in Sweden some people start to yell in a manner that is very close to talking in tongues. They are not really talking in tongues, but rather praising God and Jesus.

    All this make some people avoid communion at laestadian services, or try to get first in the line, so they can avoid being in the middle of the tumult.

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  11. I've also seen people fake cry because everyone around them is....or just to make it look like they feel bad, but then go back to "sinning" right after (laestadian sinning, like listening to music, etc)

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  12. I can believe that can be true. The motives for people are not always very clean. I remember I liked very much the communion when I was a young unmarried youth, because it gave me the opportunity to hug girls I was interested in.

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  13. Interested Party9/27/2009 09:17:00 AM

    YM said: "I had those same anxieties, going up at the wrong time, that they'd spill juice on me..."

    Are you saying that LLC uses juice at communion and not wine?

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  14. Hibernatus, that's really interesting! I knew that the Orthodox communed infants with the spoon, but was not aware that everyone received that way.

    It really is amazing the different customs around communion. For instance in my parish if you did not wish to receive, you would still be encouraged to come forward for a blessing. To indicate that you want a blessing, and not the bread and wine, you'd cross your arms the way you described. So in your church something you'd do to receive is the signal not to receive in mine. ;-)

    In my parish how we receive communion varies from person to person, and also for the liturgical season. In Lent, we go up to a communion rail, kneel, and receive the bread and wine from a common cup. Some people will dip the bread in the wine to receive both simultaneously, others will eat the bread and then drink from the cup. Still others only receive the bread and not the wine. The bread is placed in our hand by the priest, when the chalice comes by you can either dip your bread or if you already ate it, take the chalice, take a sip, and hand it back.

    When it's not Lent, we take communion standing, forming a line.

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  15. Interested party, yes the llc uses juice..I believe it's 'Motts' grape juice if I remember correctly! :P

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  16. Tomte, actually I've heard about some Lutherans who were confused because of our custom of crossing arms on chest during communion. Many Lutherans know that although they can't receive communion in the Catholic church they can still ask for a blessing during the distribution of communion by doing a similar gesture when they approach the priest in the communion line. However, this doesn't work when they are visiting an Orthodox church because the gesture will be interpreted as a sign of being prepared to receive communion. Besides, we don't really have a similar custom of asking for the priests blessing during communion as the Catholics have. Usually only those who receive communion join the communion line, except if you are assisting someone (children or people with impaired mobility). After the communion the priest blesses the congregation with the chalice, and in some traditions, the priest also blesses everyone individually at the end of the service, and there are also other services that include a part in which the priest blesses everyone individually, but the distribution of communion is not one of those.

    ---

    I maybe should add that all those who receive the communion at the altar table (deacons, priests, bishops) receive it separately in both kinds. They get the "bread" in their hand, eat it, and then take three sips from the chalice. After they have received, the "bread", which has been cut to pieces, is put in the chalice, and the communion is distributed with a spoon to all the rest (lay people, readers, subdeacons). This is the way it has been done for the last 1500 years, but we have also an older liturgy, which is called the liturgy of St. James (he was the step brother of Christ and the first bishop of Jerusalem), and in that liturgy the communion is distributed in a different way, the "bread" and "wine" separately (the same kind of a commununion line as in a regular Orthodox liturgy, arms crossed, the priest puts the "bread" in your mouth, the deacon pours some "wine" in your mouth from the chalice). The liturgy of St. James is celebrated usually only once a year on October 9 which is the day when the church commemorates St. James. So, normally we receive by spoon, but there is also this exception when everyone receives it the same way as deacons, priests and bishops. The reason why the custom of distributing with a spoon was introduced was that after Christianity became legal and eventually also state religion in the Roman empire, a lot of people who hadn't really embraced the Christian faith entered the church, and in this way the church wanted to eliminate the possibility that anyone might take the communion with them from the church and use it for magic or sacrilegious purposes.

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  17. Hi guys it is me "pyhä"-changed my nick being too holy. About the communion and different churches. I've done 'em all. Lutheran, Catholic, Greek Catholic, Laestadian,...Actually I don't so much care about these boundaries and "rules" anyways. Jesus sure wouldn't. Yesterday I went to St. Thomas Mass which is kind of my spiritual home. here where I live it is not as common as in Helsinki, where they have about 1000 visitors every sunday. And coffee and cake for all after=). many former laestadians have found their home from St. Thomasmass.

    http://www.tuomasmessu.fi/?sid=25

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  18. This article really brings back memories for me. I always dreaded the Communion Sunday ritual. To me, the part before communion where everyone asks forgiveness from one another was the worst. Everyone says the exact same thing, every Sunday, word for word. How can it really be heartfelt if its basically just a memorized speech? It always made me uncomfortable, especially since I never knew the words for the part where you forgive the other person.

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  19. Norge/Phya: You sounds like a pretty neat person. Im glad you feel blessed by a second chance and make effort to share that with other.

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  20. I recall there was much terrible guilt and fear associated with communion. I noticed how right before communion some of the teenagers would skip out of the church as they were terrified they would eat and drink condemnation upon themselves. Suprisingly, some years later a very old Laestadian woman tipped me off with a clue that much of this guilt ridden fear was being generated by over bearing mothers who had indoctrinated their children. I finally fully realized years later while studying in college that neurotic/uneducated mothers (and fathers) were indeed the source of this oppressive guilt and fear. The Laestadian 'community' merely reinforced the mindset.

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  21. I agree with anonymous. For many Laestadian mothers (fathers too) love is not unconditional. They love you...but only if you remain in the church. If you leave the church, you risk losing the love of your parents. They may give some lipservice that they still love you, but in most esential ways, the core part of their love seems incomplete, if not gone. You're seen as a failure.

    I grew up Laestadian. A woman I work with has a former Laestadian stepfather who she has a difficult time understanding. She calls on me, sometimes, to be a sort of culture-broker or interpreter of her stepfather's behavior. She sees he has very high expecation on what grown children should do for their parent to be worthy of their acceptance and love.

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  22. One of the many sub topics taught in human anatomy and physiology is the whole male/female cycle of sexuality. Males have a cycle that peaks out at about 20 and females peak out at around 40. This is all a natural endocrine cycle and the way God made us. However, growing up in a Laestadian group, I found that within Laestadian circles they teach that any feelings derived thereof are from the devil and one must be having devilish thoughts and/or desires that need to be repented of. Hence the individuality of a person is pounded down at a very young age creating a 'neurosis.' A close examination of present day Laestadianism will reveal that much of it really seems to evolve around control of women. The unspoken mindset is that women must remain 'dumbed down' so that they remain willing, docile and available marriage partners. Often times it seems that a big component of early marriages in Laestadian circles seems to be in response to the heavy early repression of one's natural endocrine cycle. This severe repression (of women in particular)seems to spread to all aspects of Laestadian life especially with regards to which church one attends. As a counter action to this early repression I recall more than one humbly dressed Laestadian wife being a real battle axe behind the scenes totally dominating their husbands. The truth be told, I believe that all of the 'splits' in American Laestianism were really over issues surrounding control of the women when it comes right down to it. Doctrinal issues were only a secondary issue. A huge chunk of the unstated rules (remember in general, unstated rules are more important that stated rules) of Laestadianism is that one must 'belong' to the right church. Hence if you no longer attend you have essentially walked off the edge of the world in their mind since no one else is going to heaven. This is all part of the repressive and guilt ridden environment leading up to communion.

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  23. Good post, Anon. I agree with your comments. And Anon above you, I, too, feel love is VERY conditional in Laestadian churches. It took me decades to realize and internalize that not everyone in this world has that view! The concept of conditional love is so ingrained in me that I struggle on a daily basis to be loving and caring first and foremost.
    When one sees God as judgmental and distant, how can one possibly view one's family and friends in a different light?
    Blessings to all. SISU

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  24. In response to your comment (I am the previous anon). I later 'confronted' my parents (both of who grew up in Laestadianism during the Great Depression era) over these issues in several bitter meetings/denounciations but later on they became more civil conversations. (So many of the immigrant Laestadian Finns are descended from the torppar class (serf class) of Finns who themselves had had very hard lives in Finland.) As my dad summed it up, 'It was hard for us to give and show love to you children when we did not get it ourselves. We tried out best but had no example to follow.' Thus the lack of love and sometimes brutal childhoods seems to be an intergenerational behavior trait passed down to subsequent Laestadian generations from the previous generation (via uneducated parents). This keeps happening because of their self imposed isolation from others outside of the 'church.' What the American Laestadians do not seem to grasp is that one can get an 'education' without falling away from faith and grace. People who 'leave' the church while in college only do so because they see the gaping falsehoods within it. I believe that the ongoing economic depression will eventually force many of the Finns out of construction and into higher education. This will cause a gradual change for the better within the movement. However, one can only change oneself and thus the cold Laestiadian aloofness and conditional love can only be conquered with true Christian love itself.

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  25. As an after thought to the above post I would also like to mention one of those 'unmentionables.' I knew of or heard of several suicides within the Laestadian movement that were sort of 'hushed up.' From all I could gather, it seemed that they all stemmed from the oppressive guilt that was taught within the movement-sort of like the guilt associated with communion. What a tragic end for people who are supposedly in the 'only true church' which claims that they have 'God's Peace.' I never felt it was the individual's 'fault' but rather the oppressive sin obsessed, fault finding, confession demanding, individual crushing atmosphere created within the movement which was fostered by certain speakers. In contrast, Professor Moody gave a good example of what true cleansing should be by putting a bunch of dust in a glass and trying to pick the pieces swirling around suspended in the water out without any luck. He then poured in fresh water into the glass and the dirty water was quickly all washed out illustrating what happens when a person truly accept the Lord as their Saviour. This story is sort of analagous to the fixation on cleansing through Laestadian-style confession versus cleansing by being filled with the Spirit of the Living Word through faith in Jesus.

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  26. LLLreader chimes in: Some good thought provoking posts going on here. I have had to look at my almost obsessive need for approval. If somebody doesn't like me I feel awful--not much question in my mind about where that came from. "What will people think?" was the theme around our house growing up.

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  27. I know that there was a lot of that "What will others think?" attitude, but I have to thank my lucky stars that I didn't have to suffer much in that regard myself. I didn't flaunt my behavior, but I sure didn't let the restrictions slow me down very much either. I know that with my folks, the love was unconditional. That doesn't mean that they weren't disappointed when as a young guy I would stumble in, in the wee hours, drunker than a proverbial skunk. Perhaps it stemmed back to the day when my Dad, as a young man, was known to be one of the best dancers in the community! My Mother told me a story long after my Dad had died of how my grandparents went to visit one Saturday night at a local preacher's house and the preacher's wife commented that (my Dad) had picked up their two girls earlier in the evening and she thought maybe they were going to a young folks "gathering". My Grandmother apparently didn't miss a beat in informing her that if (my Dad) had picked them up, then they were all at a local dance!

    In retrospect, what is kind of funny was the fact that I did most of my drinking and carousing with a couple of other OALC friends who are quite "respected" these days and who would be appalled today if that ever came out! What would people think!

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  28. Most all have had their weaker moments especially when they were younger. I am sure this grieved many a parent's heart and I am sure your old OALC friends had their regrets about some of their earlier behavior. Some were only better at hiding things from others.

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  29. wow, I have that same almost obsessive need for approval, and if someone doesn't like me I feel horrible. Maybe thats where my anxiety stems from..constantly trying to seem "perfect". Theres some very good posts here. I also found out that my families love wasn't unconditional (my immediate family is ok, but my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins..). As soon as I left, that love was gone. Some of them won't even say hi to me if they see me on the street. How christian-like is that?

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  30. It is interesting to see how the same personality traits and other behavioral characteristics arise from all of the Laestadian groups regardless of how each one says that they are 'different from the other one.' They all are from the same chunk of hardwood only divided by the same type of narrow mindedness and the degree to which they feel women should be controlled. I notice the word 'obsession' with approval coming up. I repeatedly saw people who went to great lengths to hide something they did as they were so fearful of criticism. When my Laestadian grandmother first got curtains she was terrified of what the hardwood relatives would think as they were considered 'sin' in those days. She then went through the same thing when she got a refrigerator. This guilt ridden life style just does not seem to go away does it? If a former Laestadian who went on and discovered the cure for all cancers, won the Nobel Prize and converted 1/2 of Africa to Christianity they would probably still be treated as a leprous heathen by the club.

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  31. Yes, "grieving a parents heart" is one of those statements meant to induce guilt. It's a finely tuned art with some people.

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  32. Sorry I did not mean it that way-in the Laestadian sense the term is used to try to try to induce guilt and goad you back into the fold. I was just using the term in the sense that any parent would have for the safety of their child.

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  33. Obsession with perfection has been a bane on my existence all my life, worse when I was younger. I was terrified of doing something wrong, anything that "others" would not approve of, even if it wasn't considered a "sin". What an awful millstone we put on ourselves.
    I, too, am sure this played a major role in my anxiety and depression. Whew! Anon, I think we're on the same wavelenth here.
    SISU

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  34. LLLreader comments: From getting a couple of posts so quickly relating to my comment about obsessing about approval---I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I bet that trait is VERY common among us ex-members--especially women. What cha' think?

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  35. Hi LL reader. The term in health care used to describe people like this is 'anal retentive.' Some times this is just shortened to 'anal'. I think this was a Freudian term used to describe personalities of people who grew up in fault finding, repressed homes where perfection was always demanded. The child grows up repressed and holding in emotions and a stickler for detail and perfection. These types of people often make good accountants and or occupations where attention to detail is needed. Or in the case of Laestadian women, they often become repressed housewives. Later on life when these people get elderly they are the ones who are fixated on their bowels. When I was a kid I remembered some of the elderly having elongated 'bowel conversations.'

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  36. LLLreader, I agree with you, it does seem like a very common trait among us ex-laestadian women. (I don't know about men, maybe it is the same). Anxiety seems like another common trait. I've had symptoms of anxiety since I was about 15 years old. I've never actually been to the dr. about it, just read stuff online, and it sounds like "social anxiety". I have 2 friends who have left who have the same sort of anxiety symptoms that I have, and also that need for approval. Interesting! I wonder how many more ex-laestadians have this?

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  37. Hi LLL. The book 'Trauma and Recovery' by Judith Herman MD might be a good book for you to read. It is one of the greatest books since Freud with regards to understanding how 'things' from the past are affecting us. From what I remember there was a fair amount of 'nerve' issues within the APL groups. I think there may be less of it now as the groups slowly become more mainstreamed and integrated into the real world versus living off in a pseudo-world. The problem is getting to the core of one's anxiety is not always easy. The answer is actually usually floating around in a person's head but often times people 'block' those types of thoughts as they cause psychological discomfort. I think Dr. Herman's book might be a source of understanding for many as it might help some 'unblock' what they did not care to remember.

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  38. From what I have seen, often times the women are the guilt 'enforcers' behind the scenes. Nothing better to keep people in line than to spread a juicy rumor. I used to wonder how many of the speaker's sermons were actually 'inspired' by their wives versus the Bible. The Laestadian girls were oppressed to the church norms but later I noticed how once they hit about age 50 or so, more than one of them became a quiet 'enforcer' of the status quo. Notice how they stand in a group at the church entrance checking out all who enter and leave? It is sort of like a gauntlet. Get the old henpecking gossip going and instill some guilt and fear. Pssss....Pssss.....Pssss......

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  39. I have to say this blog came to my attention quite by accident and I am so reassured to read all that others who have left OALC have lived through. I now have a daughter and son-in-law who are ordained ministers (Lutheran) and we have found a life full of love and caring and richly blessed by the love of Christ. I do miss the withdrawal of love and loss of love by my parents and relatives once I left OALC, but have found true 'God's Peace', and my fervent prayer is that same peace for all. Christ's dying on the cross was for us because he knew He was the only sinless person, I never knew that growing up--just that I was BAD and needed to ask forgiveness and get better.
    Thanks for the blog to express thoughts not all understand...

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