"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Just Askin'

Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Just Askin'


  1. ". . .but when he heard this, he became sad; for he was very rich. . ."

  2. Not surprising coming from an atheist....

    not you, Tomte! but "Russell" :-)

  3. "Atheist" or not, it's still a question worth asking. Especially since there have been Christian communities in the past that have taken vows of poverty, taking Jesus' command in Luke literally.

    It's within a range of interpretive choices that have actually been lived out by authentic communities.

    So if a person is a literalist, it makes sense to ask why they don't take that passage literally.

  4. Maybe so, but by focusing whether the Bible should be taken literally or not, one misses out on the spiritual. Spirituality is the foundation of many religions, including Christianity. The Bible is open to interpretation in many ways, and many might find truth in taking it literally, others may not. For those who believe it really doesn't matter one way or the other, but for those who don't believe it appears to matter a great deal.

  5. I agree that the issue is far more than literal versus not. Even the so-called literalists bring a lot more to bear when they interpret Scripture, including spirituality.

    I do think how we interpret the Bible matters, however. And in a pluralistic world where the interests of one group bump up against the interests of another very easily, everyone has a stake in Biblical interpretation. I have a stake in how conservatives interpret the Bible, because their interpretation will influence how they vote on issues that affect me. The same is true in reverse, and even for folks who believe in other religions, or no religion.

  6. Well said, and it is more apparent than ever that there is a division in this country, with Biblical interpretation and conservatism/liberalism at the core of this divide. A warfare, if you will.

  7. Is this for my benifit, Free?
    Christianity is quite simple. I wonder why people want to make it so hard and confusing?

  8. Benefit is spelled with an e.

    Christianity is rich and complex. I wonder why people want to make it so harsh and over-simplified?

  9. Tomte:

    It is as simple as believing the work of Christ on the cross. As he died, he said "it is finished."

    The God I love is not at all harsh, but loving, merciful and forgiving. The bible is a guide book for life. A road map. God is not a fun sucker- sin causes havoc in life. There is blessing and peace to live according to his instruction. No way to do that perfectly but he gave his son to stand in our stead.

  10. I posted here that we are in a warfare .. here's an article that I think is spot on: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/revolution.html. Calls it a revolution.

    Sorry for being so lazy about the way to post links. I think you helped me with that before Tomte.

  11. PS, you can say it's simple, but even a seemingly simple statement that most Christians could sign on to like "salvation is given through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ" becomes complex once you start asking theological questions like "how does atonement work?" and "how does Christ save?" and "how does this apply to my daily life?"

    You may have answers to all of these questions, and bring to bear biblical texts and theological assumptions to explain this, but other denominations will see things differently and draw upon scripture in a different way.

    Either way, what sounds simple to begin with quickly becomes complex once the matter is looked into with any amount of serious study.

  12. Norah, what's your answer to the culture wars? Do you think we should keep fighting until there is a clear winner regardless of the casualties, or is there some other solution?

  13. I don't have any answers, Tomte. The article says this is more than a culture war, it's a revolution. This is no longer going to be a country which is governed 'by the people, of the people, for the people'. Government takeover of banks and private business..what else can you call that. It's not a Democrat/Republican issue, but an ideological one where both sides have sold out, in my opinion. Other than political activism, people who do not want this to happen getting involved and running for office, there is not much the rest of us can do.

  14. Oh no, socialism are coming, the socialism is coming!!!!! We could end up with a country that is like, oh, no, could it be? Sweden?

    Gimme a freakin' break.

    I say, bring it on! I've been to Sweden, and as far as I could see, it was a pretty sweet life they had.

    My husband taught for several years in Gellivare, Sweden, the HQ of the OALC. Yes, COMPLETE freedom of religion in Sweden yet today. Despite all the socialism.

    The problem with so many of you conservatives is you listen to way too many neocon talk shows and this muddles with your head. I have a good church friend from the UP that I've grown up with, he and I have been very good friends. He is a rabid Republican. I stay away from discussing politics with church friends if I can help it, but he is obsessed with the subject and won't leave it alone. Finally I had to admit, yes, we are both believers (IALC) but I am as far left as you are right. I never recall all this political talk when I was growing up; I had no idea what people's political leanings were outside of my own nuclear family.

    One thing these Republican talk shows have done is to stir up hate and anger in their listeners and they get so obsessed with their content (even to deny global warming, for goodness sakes, despite all the scientific evidence) that they can't shut up for a minute about it.

    Yes, there are shows like Air America, but for every four necon shows, there is only about one liberal radio talk show. It must make you wonder: who is paying for all of this air time, and what do they want from all of you? Why are they courting and buying you? What is their agenda? Haven't the last eight years been proof enough the platform don't work?

    --Lefty Laestadie aka Stranger in a Strange Land who would like to pull the covers over my head and not hear any more stupid crap.

  15. I guess we might be in agreement then, that there is a revolution going on. You say bring it on, I say not so fast. And there we will leave it. No anger on my side, and I hope you are not angry either.

  16. No, not angry Norah. Sometimes a little bit weary.

  17. I know.. I have turned off politics for now, have had enough. There's gardening to do and sunshine to enjoy! lol

  18. Norah, thanks for the link. I read it and was struck by how similiar some of the more right-wing anti-Obama rhetoric in the article was to left-wing anti-Bush rhetoric I have read. The article fears a left-wing dictatorship. I've read similiar articles from the left that feared a right-wing dictatorship.

    I don't know how much of this extreme rhetoric I believe from either side. I think its purpose is to scare people, and I don't think that fear is the proper base out of which to make important policy decisions. Unfortunately both sides employ fear, because it works.

    One thing I do know is that when one side over-reaches, the voters will put them out of office. I think that's what happened in 2008, and if the voters aren't happy with the results of all these changes you'll see some folks voted out in 2010, and 2012.

    Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

  19. What I've been thinking about recently is that a larger or expanded knowledge of history is needed on my part.. it's something I am trying to spend some time on. What were conditions like in the years between WWI and WWII, what were the forces at work. Last weekend I had cspan BookTV on for several hours, and watched some very interesting authors speak about their lives and their research. People from Edwin Black to Mark Rudd to Sandra Day O'Connor. Otherwise, I don't really trust any of the voices out there, from either the left or the right.. if it's all about power and winning elections, then forgetaboutit. It's all talking points and spin, in my opinion. But there is a lot more that just never comes out in the media, and might take work to find. The article was an interesting source, to me, in learning about historical precedents.. and there are many.

    anyhoo, those are my thoughts this morning..

    and yes, let the system work. If people don't like the way things are going then get involved politically, run for office.. you're right, there is always the next election.

  20. ..and about right-wing and left-wing fears, I agree. That's why we really do need at least a two-party system. Checks and balances.

  21. Religion and politics became intertwined the day Obama signed the stimulas bill: You would have to spend a million dollars a day from the time Jesus was born until 2026 to equal his spending package. More then if you combined the total of all former presidents. So far no result, just more government.

  22. Just trying to find the list of OALC rules that someone posted recently. Have they disappeared?

  23. Yes, it is astounding when you think that you have to spend that much just to undo all the damage Bush did in the past 8 years and there are still no guarantees it is going to work.


  24. Howdy Stranger...

    Just the facts mam' (or sir) did you miss the part where Obama has spent more then ALL of the presidents COMBINED? He could have "paid off" the cost of keeping you safe the last 8 years with 1/10,000th of his spending package. Jest the facts.

  25. oh yeah, he could pay off all the debts incured by every president since G. Washington. Never mind the Bush admin. And then some.

  26. Yep, that's right P.S. That's how bad George and his rich cronies messed things up. It's amazing, isn't it?

  27. And what do you mean by "keeping us safe?" Protecting us from terrorists, or keeping us safe by employing enough police force, or making sure kids in poverty have access to good medical care, immunizations, and a healthy nourishing diet? Don't these things "keep us safe" too? Or are they not important to you because these problems affect none of YOUR loved ones? There are other definitions for safety. The Bush years and his failed policies only created MORE terrorists and made this world LESS safe.

  28. Good morning anon 6:36-

    We have a welfare system where every child in the nation can get health care and food. Food stamps are available and free breakfast and lunch at school. We have the best medical care available in the world. People from countries with "free" health care come here for treatment. Anyone can go to the ER and recieve treatment regardless of their ability to pay. And yes, these issues have affected those I love- which is how I can say this with certainty.

    We have not had another attack since 9/11. You can not back up your wild accusations about the Bush administration. I wonder why you have such a distaste for this country I love?

  29. PS--There you go again-saying you have the best medical care in the world, I beg to differ!!!! You should've said: ""In my opinion" we have the best medical care in the world" because that's your opinion, where are the facts? Until you give some evidence that you have the best medical care, I won't agree. I have read statistics that compare between the US and other countries with "free" medical care, and they show that the "free" countries get better care. But don't take my word for it-google it yourself. Yes, I know there are people from other countries that go to the US for treatments that they'd have to wait for in their own countries. There are also people who go from the US to countries for treatments that they cannot afford. It works both ways there buddy. No, free healthcare does not always work, but private healthcare doesn't always work either, and "in my opinion", free healthcare works better. Especially for the poor.

    So, wheres the evidence showing that the US has THE BEST medical care?

    --anon fr. another country (yes I'm still around)

  30. Here goes P.S. again, not only calling people with other viewpoints "non-Christians" he/she now has the audacity to accuse me of not loving my own country.

    Yes, I love the USA, and I'm proud to be an American.

    The USA was the first working modern democracy. I'm proud to come from a country that has accomplished as much as it has and that coined the term "all people are created equal."

    However, at some point, after being a shining light to the rest of the world, the flame is flickering out. We've been surpasssed by other democracies who offer a better way of life for their people. Even a country like Germany, under a totalitarian regime just 60 years ago, has surpassed the USA in human rights and in taking care of their own people. Allies like the U.K. surpassed us long ago. Yet they also have millionaires and billionaires and wealth, but they understand that to keep their system going they must offer education and medical care to all their people, not just the elite few.

    We're stuck somewhere in the 60's--where is the social justice? We run a society in which most of our mothers need to work to provide for their families, yet we don't offer the same kind of protections that help a young family thrive. What we have are a lot of tired, overworked young families today. We don't protect the rights of our workers and our families. One medical catastrophy can cause a working family to lose everything. The emergency rooms are NOT free--I know people who couldn't pay their ER bills and ended up in bankruptcy and who lost their HOME after a serious accident befell a family member.

    So yes, I love my country with all my heart. I just wish we would catch up with all the other modern democracies--and start treating our people right.

  31. Anon from another country:

    no where in your post did you first state "in my opinion" you just let me have it. Touche.

    We do have free health care. It's called welfare here. There is endless proof that America has the best health care. Most advanced. People often go to other countries for treatment that is not FDA approved. Pardon me once again for Lovong my country. I can't see how that should offend.

    Anon: 9:22

    If you are going to quote me make sure you get it right. I never accused someone of not being a christian, I questioned whether this site was- based on posts by Free and others. Then I gave my definition of a christian,(in my opinion) but here is the dictionarys:

    1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.

    of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ

    exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike:

    a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.

    sticking; clinging; adhering

    to be devoted in support or allegiance; be attached as a follower or upholder

    TOMTI (sp) felt obliged to give me a spelling lesson, this is my lesson for the day.

    I am sorry about your friend who lost everything because of health care issues. Did you know every hospital has charity available? My friend had cancer with no insurance and more then one hospital and dr. waived the fee.

    I did not read anything positive about America in your post, just criticizm. Thus my comment on your distaste for our country. Would it be fair to say your comments were said with distaste?

  32. It's criticism, not CRITICIZM.

    I am really glad you are not touting the superiority of American schools.

  33. PS--I said: "in my opinion", free healthcare works better.

    So, yes, I did say "in my opinion"....

    I think it's good that you love your country! That is not what offends me. What offends me is you saying that your country has the best healthcare in the entire world. Have you researched healthcare in other countries? I can guarantee there are other countries with fantastic health care. In my opinion, all the fancy tests, machines,etc. don't matter if regular people cannot afford the basic health care...but, that's just my opinion.

    So what happens when working people cannot afford their medical treatments, and do not qualify for welfare or insurance? And what happens when the doctors or hospitals don't waive the fee? I've read and heard many stories about this in the news..not a good situation when that happens!

    --anon from another country

  34. PS, I read the first part of your posting regarding health care. It is NOT true that Americans go overseas only for health care not approved in the US. Many countries provide Americans with surgeries that they could not afford in this country. The care in foreign hospitals is often, though of course not always, better than that provided here.

    It's fine that you wish to wave your flag for the US, but loving something/someone/ideas does not mean that you must turn a blind eye to faults. We have problems here, and sometimes I think they're insurmountable. Providing ongoing health care, through a clinic, say, is much different than using the ER after you have gotten so sick that there isn't much option.

    I've done volunteer work around homeless and very poor people, and I certainly wouldn't equate our access to appropriate health care. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, I can tell you.

    There but for the Grace of God...SISU

  35. LLLreader sez: Regarding the matter of spelling, I have two advanced degrees and can't spell. My kids could spell better then me by the time they were in forth grade. It has been a real problem for me my whole life. It limits what I write, since I know I can't spell some of the "big" words--and I don't want to take the time to look them up. I was finally diagnosed with a learning disability and have learned to work around it. Spell check is a lifesaver. Brain chemistry is a wonderment isn't it? I have thought about how much my brain chemistry contributes to my view of the world--I have been a flaming liberal since I was a child. It is virtually impossible for me to think in terms of black/white--there are always shades of gray. (I just made 3 attempts to spell virtually and finally asked my husband). Over the long period that I have been posting here, I have attempted to look for some middle ground. For people who happily follow the teachings of the OALC, I say God bless 'em. If it works for them, then it's OK with me. For the super conservative folks on this blog I have attempted to say we are all God's children and we just have different viewpoints. But, if they get real ornery--then it's off with their heads! We don't need to be attacking each other here, but My Lord, some people just ask for it don't they Tomte? By the way, Tomte I have always enjoyed your comments. It's a beautiful sunny day here, I have flowers to plant--so all is well in my world--God bless.

  36. LLLreader: I recommend Firefox as a web browser --it will automatically spell check everything one types on any web site and underline the words that are not in its dictionary. Then it's as simple as right-clicking and picking the correct spelling off of a short list. :)

    I normally don't care about spelling errors and typos, but when someone starts pronouncing their version of absolute truth with absolute certainty --in a post riddled with misspellings-- the irony becomes too much for me!

  37. Tomtiey-

    The problem with your comments is you have nothing but rash opinions with little thought. Not very deep at all. May I recomend a short third grade lesson in vocabulary? Do you know what a synonym is? If so, you would understand how perfect, flawless, inerrant and infallliaaable are different ways of saying the exact thing. Synonym. Look it up.

    I see your true colors shining thru...

  38. maybe just lie down for awhile until it passes....

  39. anon 11:14-

    It seems tomtiey has started a diversion from the topic by his spelling lecture. That's what happens when people have no real insight to the subject.

    What college did you graduate from? By the way, American schools hands down ARE superior. NOW that is a opinion It's o.k. to have is it not? Let me put a quote here from this very blog.

    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. - Carl Jung

    I love, LOVE, LOVE, The United States of America! All hail America!

  40. LLLreader comments: Interestingly enough, a recent study that was quoted in newspapers and TV states that FINLAND has the best schools in the world. I'll see if I can find the material. It was pretty interesting. Japan places the most pressure on the students, but Finnish kids did better in all areas. I don't remember where the US placed.

  41. LLLreader here: I found it. It's the PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment). It's given every 3 years to 15 year olds in all countries. The 2006 results were--Finland 2nd in Math, Finland 1st in Science, Finland 2nd in Reading. It must have been the 2009 results that were in all the papers, I couldn't find those results. Kind of interesting to see where the US placed.

  42. PS, sadly the assertion that different words mean exactly the same thing is just the kind of oversimplification I've come to expect from you.

    Inspired, inerrant, and infallible are not synonyms, especially within the specialty of theological discourse.

    The inability to draw fine yet crucial distinctions is one of the big drawbacks of religious fundamentalism, and is what makes it such a poor and blunt instrument for study of the Bible.

  43. In your opinion, Tomte. Others may not agree with your need to draw the fine yet crucial distinctions, because if not synonyms those words are certainly adjectives which can easily be used to describe the Christian's sacred text, the Holy Bible.

    Tolerance works both ways. It's PC to call conservatives and fundamentalists intolerant, but rarely does the other side see the log in its own eye. In my opinion.

  44. Norah, I'm not calling anyone names. I'm making an observation. While it's certainly my opinion, I believe that it's backed up with plenty of data.

    I was just reading an article (not here) last week where the author was conflating socialism with communism. In his mind they were exactly the same, even though I can easily think of many examples where socialism is not communism.

    Likewise, I can think of examples of inspiration that are not inerrant or infallible.

    At the risk of generalizing, it seems to me to be a feature of fundamentalism to "lump" stuff together that need not be lumped for the purposes of creating blanket statements that serve an ideological purpose.

    I love the Bible. I can thank my Laestadian upbringing for that. I even believe that the people who wrote the books that later got edited and collected in the Bible were inspired by God. I believe that the Bible "contains all things necessary for salvation."

    But I don't think the Bible is inerrant or infallible. It is sacred scripture for Christians (including me, just in case that isn't obvious to PS :-), and when it's read in community through the lenses of tradition and reason under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we can hear Jesus Christ, the Word of God, through the text.

  45. LLLreader to Tomte: I love what you said, "we can hear Jesus Christ, the Word of God, through the text". Yes!

  46. Oh my goodness, what a fuss has stirred up since I dropped in last! Free, your forum does indeed discuss everything, and now we are down to spelling and grammar and word usage.

    Tomte, while I probably agree with you...ummmm...not very often, you are spot on here. We do find Jesus Christ within those all too often dusty pages.

    It seems we're off on another sand throwing, hair pulling, name calling exercise here. How 'bout this -- Love the Lord your God, with all of your heart and all of your mind and with all of your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. No, I didn't look up the exact words, so don't anyone fuss about that. This is what is important. This is the only thing that is important.

    On the US vs the world issues, I have actually lived and travelled extensively overseas -- as I am sure some others here have as well. My experience is that British schools were far superior to US schools. Dunno about the others, although I have heard the same stories that Finnish schools are very good. My personal experience is that US healthcare --dental and medical -- is far superior to the others that I experienced (Great Britain and India). Dunno about the others.

    I have a very good friend who is extremely liberal, and her husband is so far to the left even she can't see him. She and her husband, being quite radical -- all the way from the Hippie days -- fussed about GWB every chance they got, and finally moved out of the US to Norway. We hear often about how absolutely wonderful it is to live there -- social care being free and all. They came home on a visit this summer and what did they spend their time doing? Going to their US doctors and dentists, and stocking up on all the meds they could carry back. Hmmm. I said nothing.

  47. It sounds like tomtiey either agreed with me all along: "we can hear Jesus Christ, the Word of God, through the text" or he rearranged his thinking.

    The three are one. Father, son, holy spirit. So what was his arguement? "The bible is not God's word but Jesus Christ's." The three are one. In the beggining was the word, and the word was GOD.

    I remain, staunchly firm: The bible is the FLAWLESS, PERFECT, INFALLIBLE, INERRANT word of GOD.

    So you see first hand different side to our healthcare. regarding some of my comments, I tend to be flip when people can't do anything but criticize or great country. Many have died defending their freedom and safety. My son serves in the air force so you all can sleep in peace at night, board a plane with confidence, ride the subway, cross a bridge, drink un-infected drinking water, open your mail....

    I will take Cheney's speach before Obama's uninformed and ignorant remarks on homeland security and Gitmo. These terroists aren't protected under the U.S. law and don't deserve the same consideration. For those who disagree, please welcome them to your neighborhood- I don't want them in mine.

    Nancy Pelosi sure pulled a Bill Clinton with her blatent lies and should be impeached.

  48. BILLY GRAHAM'S Prayer For Our Nation:


    "Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, ' Woe to those who call evil good, ' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values. We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.. We have killed our unborn and called it choice. We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. We have neglected to discipline our children and calledit building self esteem. We have abused power andcalled it politics.. We have coveted our neighbor' s possessions and called it ambition. We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. Searchus, Oh God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and Set us free. Amen! '

    Commentator PAUL HARVEY aired this prayer on his radio program, ' The Rest of the Story, ' and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired. With the Lord ' shelp, may this prayer sweep over our nation and wholeheartedly become our desire so that we again can be called ' One nation under God.. '

  49. LLLreader here: I just finished a book, Patriot Hearts, a historical novel based on the lives of Martha Washington, Abigail Adams, Sally Hemings, and Dolly Madison. Think of Dolly Madison bravely saving George Washington's portrait from being burned in the White House, at great risk to herself. Today my newspaper had a big article about Normandy. I was there several years ago, and if ever a place gives a person a feeling of pride in country, it's Omaha Beach. Those men, boys really, giving up their lives for our freedoms. We have so many heroes. Just a couple of things on my mind today.

  50. PS, if you think that what I said and what you said are actually the same, then my point about not being able to draw distinctions has just been made for me.

  51. LLL:

    The Normandy "invasion" amazes me. to say give up your life for your country is an understament, isn't it? They knew they were facing "slaughter" yet bravely went forward!


    I was of course, refering to your comment: "we can hear Jesus Christ, the Word of God, through the text"

    In the beggining was the word, and the word was GOD. You are not argueing with me, but God.

    I remain, staunchly firm: The bible is the FLAWLESS, PERFECT, INFALLIBLE, INERRANT word of GOD.

    Yet your arguement is "the word of GOD is Jesus Christ and you can't find anywhere that says it is inerrant or infallible." (The three are one.)

    I gave you a vocab. lesson and several expamples. Funny that you would rather argue and correct my spelling then take a honest look and perhaps re-evaluate how narrow minded you are being. It's not about "winning" it is about truth.

    Mabey a self check is in order?

  52. P.S. scares me. A lot. That's all I have to say.

  53. give me a break, anon 10:15 (tomtiey) describe what in my last post- what doesn't make sense to you.
    You scare me with your creapy anon.posts. You don't define it, just make some random comment.Could it be you have no rational thoughts on the subject matter?

  54. What scares me is that people who are unable to read for content (either the Bible or blog posts) think they speak for God.

  55. It could be that they don't have any rational thoughts on the matter, or it could be that they really don't care about what is being argued about, and are weighing in on the "arguers" instead. Who knows? Ps,You jump to conclusions quite easiely, I've noticed. Thats ok though. No need to give me a lecture now.

  56. Tomtiey spoke volumes when all he could do was correct a spelling error. Still no response on my actual posts. It's hard to admit when you are wrong, and apparently harder to apologize.


    first YOU give the lecture then you don't want a response. Typical of narrow thinking. And I thought your claim to fame on this site was to consider others and their beliefs.

    I in no way jumped to conclusions. Tomtiey and others made themselves very clear. I didn't have to read between the lines.

    Have a blessed Sunday.

  57. PS, I've moved past your inability to spell. Why do you keep bringing it up? I've moved on to your inability to read and comprehend the Bible and the postings of your fellow blog-readers.

    Seems to me that we're right back where we started.

  58. Tomtiey

    I accept yout apology. Thank you.
    I accept your silence on the scripture you requested as agreement that the bible is indeed perfect and infallible.

    I accept that you concede: In the beggining was the word, and the word was God. The three are one, making what you said incorrect.(John 1)

    I accept that you slam people for not having a degree, yet don't claim to have one yourself.

    See? I HAVE learned to be very accepting!

    And finally, the spelling error thing? Look at how many people excuse the spelling errors in their posts now. Let that be a reminder, not me.

  59. PS, if you want to continue this conversation in email, my address is e (dot) tomte (at) gmail (dot) com.

    The only response I have to your latest in public is:


  60. What for Tomtiey? So you can privatley ridicule? I don't think so. Anything you have to say can be said here. So far, you haven't said much.

  61. It seems certain peoples comments are being blocked- pending "blog owner approval." Does anyone here see the bias? Certain friends of the "all people, religion, opinions are welcome" blog owner can say and insult as they please- yet those who with differing posts are "pending approval?" It sounds like mind control to me.

  62. PS Said:"first YOU give the lecture then you don't want a response. Typical of narrow thinking. And I thought your claim to fame on this site was to consider others and their beliefs."

    How was that narrow thinking on my part? I gave you another way to take that anon's comment instead of assuming that they didn't have any rational thoughts on the topic...I guess Tomte and whoever else was commenting made themselves clear to you, but it didn't seem quite so clear to me. Maybe it's because I don't have a college degree..? lol

    Anyways, no more arguing from me, take it how you want to- I'm not getting drawn back in. I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to.

  63. ps-how was that narrow thinking? I gave you another perspective on what that anon said. oh well, i really don't want to argue and did not mean to offend you.

  64. Comment moderation is now on, because I am too busy to check the blog daily to see if it has been hijacked.

    Everyone is welcome to post here. It is pretty much a free speech zone, but there are limits.

    Please follow blog etiquette:

    1. Limit your comment to three or four paragraphs

    2. Provide links to outside sources; do not repost entire articles

    3. When referring to another poster, use the name THEY have provided

    4. Refrain from personal attacks on other posters

    5. Refrain from hate speech (speech intended to degrade a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion)

    Before you post, please ask yourself if you would say the same thing in person. If not, you probably should not post it. Thanks to all of you for participating in this discussion, and for your understanding as I try to make it a blog that is helpful, not hurtful.

  65. LLLreader sez: Thank you tomte for inviting ps to write to you directly. This site needs to be open for everyone to express their opinions. But, sometimes when the issues are highly charged, it gets easy to start taking pot shots. I know I have done it. Let's move on--we have plenty of common ground, and let's just focus on that. OK everyone?

  66. PS, I'm getting the distinct impression that others on this blog are losing interest in our conversation. That's why I suggested taking it to email.

    Also email is conducive to longer exchanges which are not appropriate for the give and take of blog comments.

  67. Free2Bme-

    I promise I will try to play nice. You can turn off the moderator if you like. Helena speaks highly off you, I might add.

    You can post this..or not. It's o.k.

  68. LLLreader sez: Freeda Dear, the dining room analogy is a good one! Trying to be fair in letting everyone have their say, while still limiting statements that cause hard feelings, can be tricky.