What does the word Laestadian mean to you? This question was raised on a post at the site ALC Discussion, where the poster took offense at the how describing negative aspects of Laestadianism tars the reputation of all Laestadians, even those who may not share those negative aspects.
To create a working definition, we need to take into account the history of Laestadianism and the strong influence of conservative Laestadians in the movement. My attempt is as follows: a strict Pietist form of Christianity descended from the movement created by Lars Levi Laestadius in the mid-19th century and characterized by a focus on the inherent sinfulness of humanity and the practice of confession and absolution.
The challenge in defining this term is the heterogeneity of what it tries to describe. The Laestadian heritage is characterized by a history of splitting and changing over time, creating at least five distinct groups in the US (the country I am familiar with). Further heterogeneity exists due to the geographical and cultural differences between groups. With the Scandinavian origin of the movement, the widespread emigration of early Laestadians, and the more recent missionary work around the world, there are Laestadians on every continent but one (anyone know of Laestadians on Antarctica?). With such a heterogeneous group, what unites all the members under the label Laestadian? Are we fair to smaller Laestadian groups when we use the word Laestadian to describe characteristics shared by the majority of Laestadians but not by the smaller group?
Taking this question a little further, is it possible for us to break Laestadianism into healthy and unhealthy groups? Based on the experiences of the majority of us here, we are fully aware of the unhealthy groups, but are we aware of any healthy Laestadian groups? In my experience, there are a few churches that have made some progress in distancing themselves from the unhealthy traits of Laestadianism. These groups include the ALC churches in Painesdale, MI and Lake Worth, FL as well as the Grace Apostles church near Minneapolis, MN (see the previous post FALC Issues).
You might find this Wikipedia article interesting: Laestadianism in America.
ReplyDelete~Floater
Hi Free!
ReplyDeleteThe link to "I left the Old Apostolic Lutheran Church" had the address wrong-- should be www.lefttheoalc.blogspot.com
Can you edit it?
From Popular Music from Vittula by Mikael Niemi:
ReplyDeleteGrandma had actually written a will. It was in the exercise book she’d left behind, and was comprehensive to say the least. Detail after detail, page after page, in her shaky handwriting. This and that person should receive this and that under the following conditions. But as the old bird had been preparing her final exit for the last fifteen years or more, and was extremely capricious into the bargain, the pages teemed with alterations, crossings out and additions in the margin, not to mention a loose sheet covered in cramped endnotes. Some relatives had been disinherited several times over, but then reinstated equally often. Others would only be allowed to inherit if certain conditions were fulfilled, such as declaring their allegiance to the Living Faith and renouncing the demon drink in the presence of the whole family, or begging all present plus Jesus Christ to forgive them a whole host of meticulously detailed sins they had committed over a number of years. The entire text had been signed and witnessed several times, but alas not the crucial loose page. Moreover, it was all written in Tornedalen Finnish.
Simply reading the document aloud in the stifling atmosphere of the kitchen took several hours. Every single word had to be translated into Swedish, standard Finnish, English, German and Persian, since the daughter living in Växjö had married a Sunni Muslim immigrant. Not least the religious sections caused great difficulties. A fundamental requirement for inheriting was embracing the Living Faith, something most people from Tornedalen interpreted as meaning Laestadianism. After hearing the translation, there were protests from the Sunni Muslim, the son-in-law from New Zealand who was a Jew, and the daughter in Frankfurt who had become a Baptist: all of them argued in turn that their faith was just as much a Living Faith as that of anyone else present. Grandma’s younger brother from Ullatti maintained noisily that as a West Laestadian he was the most Christian of all those present, whereupon an East Laestadian cousin, another one from the Assembly of Truth and several fundamentalists protested strongly. An old biddy from a Finnish sect immediately went into a liikutuksia and started moaning and jumping around in ecstasy, sweat pouring off her. Others decided to play it safe and began confessing a multitude of sins while flailing their arms about, sobbing, embracing their neighbours and tripping over the rag carpets.
Anonymous, I love it! I had forgotten that particular passage from Popular Music from Vittula
ReplyDeleteI was under the impression that the gaylaestadian blog was a member of the LLC (Leastadian Lutheran Church), not ALC. Perhaps it would be good for someone to verify this.
ReplyDelete~Floater
I knew somebody would be all over that one. :)
ReplyDeleteLeave the poor guy alone already.
That Popular Music from Vittula excerpt was great!
ReplyDeleteAs far as the complaint some made about this blog trying to destroy the ALC or Laestadian-heritage churches, I think that's misdirected. It's true I'd love to destroy the negative parts of Laestadianism (and those are legion), but I have no desire to destroy any specific church or community. Rather, I encourage the unhealthy Laestadian-heritage groups to transform themselves into healthy groups. Because that dream is unlikely to be fully realized anytime soon, the next best thing is to help those who have left unhealthy Laestadian-heritage groups in their transition so that they understand they are not alone and to provide resources to help them find a new and healthy place "outside in the world."
Free...
ReplyDeleteI read the referenced critical posting of your web posts and have a couple of thoughts about it.
Firstly, it has been my experience that in the Laestadian tradition disagreement is considered to be a form of sin. I emphasize "my experience" because I don't know this to be universal in the church or in various sects. This being the case it easy to see how polemic can be interpreted in this way.
Secondly, we live in a time when feelings rule over reason. So the threshold of tolerance is whether one is "offended" or not and there are an increasing number of things to be offended by. Not in this case but we are becoming a society that asks its government to protect us from being offended. I hasten to add that I don't believe this to be a helpful trend.
I often find myself on the opposite side of your opinions and have a "jolly old time" saying so however I have not seen any posts by you that qualify as malevolent. I therefore urge you to continue
I agree with you Stylux, Free has been admirably measured in her attitude toward toward those who've caused so much hurt. It is oversensitive to be offended when people use the word Laestadian to refer to the current numerical majority and historical norm of what is Laestadian, from the present time right back to Laestadius himself.
ReplyDeleteWhooeee, that referenced site was fascinating! I especially liked Ilmarinen's invention of the term "paleo-Laestadianism." And was frankly shocked that Floater considers the intent of the site to "destroy" Laestadian churches. Wherever did you get that idea?
ReplyDeleteI for one don't even CARE all that much about the fate of the Laestadian churches, having left the OALC behind (except to the extent that my family belongs and the effects live within me, which is a large "except").
Also, the statement that we on this site enjoy seeing Laestadians suffer and in pain (or something to that effect) is completely ridiculous.
You oughta check it out, if you haven't. But I have to say, even tho it is interesting to read about the ALC, I don't feel any connection to it. Do any of you other ex-OALCers feel the same? Maybe it's a typical OALC attitude, but they might as well be Muslims for all the kinship I feel! MTH
Addendum: on the 4th line after "Floater", what was supposed to be "THIS site." MTH
ReplyDeleteMTH...
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way that you do with respect to the OALC and the ALC. I do not wish any of them ill in any manner and actually hope that they thrive so long as it "works" for the members. Like you, my kinship to the OALC exists only to the extent that my family are members. I know virtually nothing about the ALC and feel no connection to them at all. I occasionally attend services at other churches for the sake of the music and sightseeing and can muster no enthusiasm for the ALC at all.
I am not sure that it is typical to take this position but for me it is a variation of "burn out" or rather "meetinged out". I attended so many services and heard so much gospel and had so many people around me speak of so much "preciousness" that for the last twenty years or so I find myself coming down off of religious overload. This perhaps explains my intellectual approach to the whole subject for that way, I can take an unemotional view of things.
Here's a comment I posted on the ALC Discussion blog:
ReplyDelete"Perhaps we need to define some new terms. Lets make some suggestions: neolaestadian (neoLLL) is the term for groups with a Laestadian heritage who hold to standard Lutheran doctrine of faith by grace and not works, who don't insist on intentionally making themselves conspicuously Laestadian (being conspicuously Laestadian doesn't mark you as holy or Christian; it's just a mark of which team you're on, like wearing gang colors or sports team logos), and who are IN their communities (charitable works and such) even if they are not partakers of everything everyone in their community does. NeoLLL groups might include Hockinson today, Lake Worth FL, Grace Fellowship in NH, and Grace Apostles (split from the FALC).
"Paleolaestadian groups are those that emphasize the traditional parts of LLL culture like always being downtrodden (poor, worthless, sorrowing sinners at all times throughout life), confession and absolution (especially public) as integral parts of the Christian life, shunning of modernity, restrictions that emphasize external Laestadianism (such as TV and movies and sports and makeup and jewelry, but not all groups have the exact same restrictions), skepticism over higher education, retrograde gender roles, and exclusivism (maybe not explicit, but often implied, such as using "Christian" to only refer to members of ones group). Included in this group would be many (most? all?) OALC congregations, much of the LLC, much of the FALC (although they allow things the other groups don't), Chassell, Goin Rd. NH, and Hockinson at some points in the past (but apparently not today from what you're saying)."
There are Laestadian heritage groups that have rejected some of the negative aspects of Laestadianism.
LLLreader: Freeda--you do realize that by voting for our favorite songs we are making them "popular" songs and they will no doubt be taken straight away out of the OALC services.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I must have missed something somewhere. What is the link to this ALC site that is taking the mick out of our Free?
ReplyDeletecvow, it's the second line under the title "What is Laestadianism?" It's high-lighted and all you have to do is click on it. MTH
ReplyDeletenot to sound too ignorant, and certainly not trying to offend anyone, but am I correct in understanding that the luthern religion (whether ALC, OALC, LLC or any other such version) is chosing to follow someone's (luther and/or lestadius)interpretation of the bible?
ReplyDeleteAnon..
ReplyDeleteYou pose a good question. The easy answer is yes... Lutherans believe for the most part the interpretation of the Bible espoused by Martin Luther. The relationship between faith, works and salvation is such an area. And another easy answer is no... Many Lutherans today believe much that was not taught by Martin Luther. The easiest place to look on this point is drinking. Old Martin really loved his ale.
Thats the whole problem when we try to distinguish ourselves in a certain group. When people ask me what church I was raised in, I say that I was raised lutheran but now consider myself a non denominational/mainstream christian.
ReplyDeleteDo any of you know any ex-Laestadians from the LLC,(Lastadian Luthuran Church)? Or, are you one? Do they have a site?
ReplyDeleteFolks from the LLC have visited and commented on this site. Also, the person running the gay Laestadian blog is from the LLC.
ReplyDeleteI am an ex FALC member, which is pretty much the same thing as the LLC. Both groups preach that they are the one true/pure group...you belong to the group, you are saved,etc.
ReplyDelete26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
ReplyDelete26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
26:30 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
I'm a WELS Luthern and have known of Laestadians for many years. I am sad to say that Laestadians have excluded me as someone,another soul, to be saved.
ReplyDeleteJesus saved me and only forgives me for my sins as I repent and am forgiven only by Him and not by another member of church, similar to confessing to a priest as I see the Laestadians doing so.