"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Were You Raised into a High-Control Religious Group?

Tuesday, July 28, 2015

Were You Raised into a High-Control Religious Group?

While there are good arguments for why Laestadianism does not meet the definition of "cult," few could disagree that even at is most liberal, it is high-control. That's pretty much the point, for better and for worse.

Thanks to a reader for sharing this link to an International Cultic Studies Association program that addresses the needs of second generation adults, i.e., those born or raised into high control religious groups.
Second-Generation Adults (SGAs) do not have a “precult identity” to which they can return. Raised in fringe subcultures, they frequently have educational and other skill deficits that interfere with adjustment to mainstream culture. Having grown up in high-demand, high-control groups, SGAs struggle with issues of dependency, self-esteem, and social conflict. They often have to deal with the trauma of physical and/or sexual abuse. SGAs have difficulty getting help because they tend to lack finances and be wary of other people, including helpers.
Two articles describe the program: Lessons Learned from SGAs About Resiliency and Recovery and My Perspective of Rosanne Henry and Leona Furnari’s Presentation to the Annual SGA Workshop.  The next workshop is in Chester, Connecticut next spring: April 15-17, 2016.

I fast-forwarded through much of the video, but even so, I heard a lot of parallels to my own experience.

This statement is pretty much the reason for this site:
"Former members are the most helpful piece for a lot of people recovering (from high-control gruops) . . . it's really the way to understand your own experience and to find out you are not the only one."




Readers, I hope you are finding the support you need, and helping others as you're able. Do you think things are easier now for those who leave Laestadianism, given all the resources available?


25 comments:

  1. My family was split after the falc and llc split in the 70s, some of my siblings never continued in church. Now one of my siblings seems to have a terminal illness. And I tried to have him trust in Jesus by faith alone, but in the past his comment was, which one of these church's was now the right church. Our childhood church claimed to be. No, it isn't any easier, even when some ex's are approaching death. I think the whole of the Laestadian movement is a evil church. The preachers will definetly have to pay for what they have preached and the damage that they have caused......John

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    1. Tell him: Jesus Christ did not come down on this earth to be "right". He came here to SAVE.

      A very wise man who is now an Orthodox Christian pastor and who was raised Laestadian once told me this when I left my group and was looking for the "right" church. Now I just believe in Christ. It's so much simpler and I am at peace.

      --Punahilkka

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  2. Telling my brother that Jesus came to save, is something he already knows. But when you were raised in the Laestadian movement, that's not enough. Like you, I believe in Jesus plus nothing else ,and I have peace. But my brother, now that he is weak and afraid,is going to be coaxed by the falc, you must come over here and repent in order to be saved, likewise the llc will be getting involved and doing the same thing. How is that going to work? How can he believe under those circumstances?

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    1. I've read your post several times and I'm still not sure what you mean. Are you saying your brother is weak and afraid because he still believes in he Laestadian tradition? Are you saying "Laestadians" can't believe in Jesus? ... also, use a pseudonym so we know who to respond to.

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    2. My brother is now physically weak and frail, and I know he has a fear,because he knows that he needs to be saved, I asked him about that.
      And yes, I believe most Apostolic and Laestadians believe in Jesus. But if they only have a "pinky finger" grip on Jesus, and a "save me from hell" kind of grip on their so called"right church",the only church that has the"holy spirit", and the only church that has the "forgiveness of sin's", and be honest, that's what these churches teach,and have been teaching. Knowing this, what kind of results can you expect?
      I'm sure that some are trully saved, those that have somehow rejected the false claims of their church. That's what I want for my brother,a genuine conversion......John

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  3. From my experience it is a difficult issue guiding a Laestadian out of the darkness and into the light of the true Gospel as they have been indoctrinated with 90% truth and 10% falsehoods. The Laestadian gospel sales pitch combines grace, guilt, legalism, traditions, old Ostro-Bothnian superstitions, folk lore, blue collar economics, Lutheranism and a sundry of opinions that are combined into sort of mish-mash that they call faith. In contrast, within real Christianity the foundation is on Jesus with faith in him and in his Word PERIOD. If a person is not totally founded on faith in Christ to start with then the foundation and spiritual growth of that person will always be wobbly. I knew of several who went back to Laestadianism after having left as they were never able to shake off their old beliefs even though they intuitively still believed that their Laestadian group was wrong. Personally, I found it took years for me to 'unlearn' Laestadianism and put everything into its proper context. The strongest witnesses to me-a mixed up Laestadian-were really people who showed true love and who had the testimony of Jesus actually living within their lives. I would suspect it will be the same for your brother. Perhaps you can be that person. Old AP

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  4. I agree with you on what the foundation of true Christianity is, but when the church has on it's mind, finding the right church, they are not on the foundation, that road does not lead to heaven. A person. Just got to read the Bible for themselves and ask the spirit to reveal how are we to be saved. Recently, the spirit started revealing He 1:3, it's talking about Jesus: "He by Himself purged our sin's", no help needed by the Laestadian churches...also note. It say's"our sin's", that means all of us. Also note...purged is past tense.Like Jesus said, "it is finished",.....John

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  5. How could anyone say it's not a cult? You can't even question anything. You can't leave. You can't get to heaven unless you stay with them? You are conditioned from the day you are born to think everyone else is bad and going to hell. No other church on earth or person for that matter can have a relationship outside of their physical building. How is this not a cult?

    Dude

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  6. It's not right that you call the laestadian church a cult. In total their are many hundred preachers in all the factions. None of them say that the church is a cult. Where else could you go to get your sins forgiven? Are you smarter then the preachers? Why scare the people, if it was good enough for my family for a 130 years, it should be good enough for this generation too. Toivo

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    1. Toivo - How many cult leaders refer to their group as a cult?
      unbeliever

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    2. "If slavery was good enough for my family for 130 years, it should be good enough for this generation too." -Southern slaveholders, 1860. Just because something is tradition, or because "it's the way we've always done it," doesn't make it right or correct. This is known as the Appeal to Tradition Fallacy.

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  7. Well, The Laestadian movement is either a cult or living Christianity, which is it ? Can all of the factions be wrong? One of them must be the true church. The Bible says there is only one. Toivo

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    1. False dichotomy, Toivo. It could be a third option -- Christianity is just another man-made religion, the Bible is just a book, and Laestadianism is just an insular Christian sect with many cult-like properties.

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    2. There are MANY other options Toivo....however Laestadianism would want one to believe there is only two-'them' or 'us.' Old AP

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    3. Toivo, do yourself a favor and read my post on, 'Normal Crazy Thoughts' and how Laestadian preachers use this phenomena to keep the congregation in a state of collective guilt and thus in need of the 'travelling staff' i.e. confession and absolution. It might shed some light on your, 'cult or living Christianity' comments. I have done some research and there is NO OTHER CHURCH that I can find that teaches that individual members are suddenly a royal priesthood who are qualified to absolve members of sins. All other churches that have such a teaching reserve that function for the ordained clergy as there is much more to confession and absolution than just temporary relief from guilt. Laestadians seem to treat the constant grind of confession and absolution as though it is a spiritual Alka Seltzer and then claim that since they are the only church that teaches this doctrine then they are the only right group. It all sounds like spiritual quack medicine to me. Old AP

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  8. The Bible is not just another book, proof?,Isreal is back in Her land, and the Middle east is coming apart at the seams, just like the Bible said it would....Toivo

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    1. The Quran is not just another book. Proof? Israel is back in her land. "And after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)

      The Bible has an appallingly poor track record of being accurate. Like, right from the beginning, when it says the universe was created in six days and the entire world was flooded, claims for which every single bit of evidence we have says is wrong. And there are literally thousands of inaccuracies or contradictions. Check out bibviz.com, or read Ed's book at examinationofthepearl.org.

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  9. Well, at least I'm glad that my Apostolic Lutheran church convinced me when I was young, that the Bible was and is the true word of God, I can't believe that there are churches in the Laestadian movement that failed to teach that convincingly. Toivo

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    1. It wasn't for lack of trying. Youthful indoctrination is one thing the Laestadian churches do extremely well. In my case, however, I was determined to find the truth, no matter where it may lie and regardless of what a man in a suit told me from the pulpit.

      Turns out he's just a man in a suit, not God's spokesman, and the Bible is just a book. It's got some good, some bad, and a whole lot of nonsense.

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  10. the jew, the muslim, and the so called Christian by name, will be calling on the name of jesus, when push comes to shove, I can see things happening already.......Toivo

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  11. You mean, you think there are a lot of other options that can lead someone to heaven?...Toivo

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    1. I, personally, don't believe in Christianity, thus no heaven or hell.

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  12. Toivo, yes, I actually do believe that. As a Christian, I believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ, and that he is my gate to heaven. However, I am not qualified, nor have I been granted the authority from God, to determine which faction or schism from the first church is the "one right way". Jesus said that he was building his church on the "Rock" -- with Peter as the first leader. Note that he was the first of quite a few Popes, and the Catholic church was the foundation. Although we could argue about that ad nauseum, that's where I'm comfortable. Luther was a Roman Catholic priest, who followed his own convictions, and that's ok with me. I certainly cannot -- nor do I desire to -- judge other people who profess Christianity to their own conviction and style.

    Now while this is my belief, I also recognize that since Jesus was a Jew, whether people want to admit it or not, I doubt in my mind that God has turned his back on his "chosen people", fractious as they have been throughout biblical history, since he indicated he would not do that. So then I guess Jews are OK. Muslims are the third group of "people of the book", along with Jews and Christians. Hence they hold to the same Pentateuch as the other two, with further guidance from the Q'uran. Again, God didn't ask me whether that is OK or not, but contrary to ignorant belief, that book doesn't tell anyone to kill anyone, and I don't know if it was inspired or not. So I'm fine with them. BTW, the ones going around bombing are not Muslim. They are just evil thugs who are hiding behind the name of religion to inflame and misguide others -- just like the "Catholics" and "Protestants" of Northern Ireland did.

    Real followers of God are those who seek to live with and love their neighbors and live their lives as best they can, as they have been exhorted to do in one way or another, in probably most religions. The bottom line? I'm going to leave the judging of who goes and who does not go to heaven in the hands of God. I would suggest we all do that.

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    1. "Real followers of God are those who seek to live with and love their neighbors and live their lives as best they can, as they have been exhorted to do in one way or another, in probably most religions. "

      Yes, I agree. I'm on the brink of leaving the IALC. I've sat for years in respect of what the message was trying to convince me of (being the "chosen few"). But it is just too narrow. It doesn't click. I believe in the power of "paying it forward." Help others, they will help others. The world is a messed up place, but I think good things are possible and are happening all the time. I have family and many friends I respect and love that will continue to believe in the Bible. I have to respect them, even as I move on.
      – LookingForWings

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  13. Much confusion about the difference between 'faith' and 'beliefs.' There is a difference, and Jesus taught the latter - 'your faith has made you well.' (It is never translated as 'beliefs.') Christianity is a faith, loosely summed up as 'trust,' but Calvinism, Laestadianism, Catholicism, etc., are systems of belief - defined by concrete teachings, some of them 'biblical,' some not so much. Adherents of any of these denominations is likely to describe their own or their denomination's beliefs to be 'orthodox' (the right doctrine) to the exclusion of others. This is the opposite of what Christ taught - he ridiculed every theological (belief-based) proposition presented to him, and pronounced salvation to thieves, beggars, the blind and infirm, and even the unaffiliated foreigner (the Samaritan). He was quite broad in the value of faith, and dismissive of the particularity of beliefs.

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