"laestadian, apostolic, gay, lgbtq, ex-oalc, ex-llc, llc, oalc, bunner" LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Crashes & School Boards

Monday, October 24, 2005

Crashes & School Boards

My apologies for being slow to update. I've been catching up on the posts (thank you lots!!!! to you who keep the dialogue going!).

This morning I was in a car accident. Waiting to merge onto a busy highway, I was rear-ended by a gentleman who probably had other goals for his commute. In that string of unconscious calculations one makes while driving, he saw the traffic opening up, my brakelights go off -- and assumed I was accelerating. So he stepped on the gas. Smack. Because I was only inching forward, getting ready to punch the pedal of our 10-year old Corolla, which is more turtle than hare. I know its limits.

So now I hurt. My head throbs. My back is stiff (thank goodness for insurance). The gentleman and I exchanged numbers, inspected bumpers, called our agents. Chalk it up to the price of driving.

It occurred to me that some of the blips on this blog are similar. Bumpers get dented, but no one is seriously injured. Let's hope so, anyway. We can chalk it up to the price of talking.

TOPIC TWO: Yesterday I heard from two ex OALC members who are concerned because of the school board elections in Battle Ground. Apparently there are two candidates from the OALC who are on the November ballot. One source said that they were handpicked by the preachers.

This astounded me, because I've never known the OALC to get involved politically. Can they, legally? Don't they risk losing their tax-exempt status?

In any case, someone needs to tell the voters that the candidates' church actively preaches against (and prohibits for their own children) music, athletics and art, all programs funded by the district. The candidates should share with the voters just what they intend to do when conflicts arise between their personal beliefs and the boards' commitment to serve all the children of BG.

Weigh in, please.

(Just remember to buckle up first.)


  1. Sorry about your accident.

    My question is this:

    If the preachers were going to hand-pick the candidates, why not choose one who doesn't pose a threat to the children?

    The proverbial rug is pretty full, and it's starting to tick me off!

  2. Hi, glad you weren't seriously hurt.

    I think that B.G. voters do know, as the OALC is quite noticable in this area. I would think anyway...

  3. Another thought.... I think it's legal if they don't publicly endorse them... If for instance, they just went and encouraged them to run, like anyone else might do.
    Don't know for sure though....just weighing in..

  4. A comment was posted under "Kalevala" regarding insecure people posting and reading this blog. I'll put myself on the top of the list of "insecure" people. Insecure means not confident or sure, not well protected, not firmly fastened, not stable or well adjusted. All of these meanings can very well describe where I was when I left the OALC, having been born into and raised in the church. I observed lots of questionable behavior, little that was ever dealt with, much that was considered normal, and did not find satisfaction in the answers to my questions. I didn't feel well protected in that church. My own parents weren't able to separate the inappropriate from what is appropriate - what people in the church do doesn't seem to matter. It's all okay, after all, they go to church. As a result, I grew up not firmly fastened. Didn't fit in, and couldn't nod my head in agreement with some of the things people would say. Though in other areas of my life I am stable and well adjusted, I am not in terms of a church. It is possible that over time I will find a comfortable place to worship. But for now, growing up in the OALC has taken its toll, and I have to admit that that experience makes it extremely difficult.

    To the person who left that comment, it's no laughing matter.

    You might think twice about making such a statement if you bothered to take the time to find out what some of us have experienced.

  5. Re: School Boards

    Parents should be greatly
    There is a case now in Penn-
    sylvania where 11 parents had
    to take the school board to
    court in the evolution debate.
    Looks like we have not progress-
    ed much from the "Monkey Trial"
    way back in 1925.

    Who would of thought that school
    board elections would become so

    Here in Michigan the whole
    economic future of this state
    depends on the development of
    a highly educated workforce
    principally in the fields of
    Math,Science and Engineering.
    The days of the high-paying
    factory jobs are rapidly dis-
    appearing off-shore.

    Even in the highly skilled jobs,
    competition from abroad is in-
    creasing as a recent TV story
    on Silicon Valley problems in-

    Which all points to a school
    system that does not become
    mired down with boards push-
    ing religous beliefs.

  6. To Anon 1:17 - I read the comment on the other page, and I agree it may not be a laughing matter. However, I can see that person's point of view, being I'm not a member of any Apostolic churches. Sometimes this site gets a little offensive, even to those of us who are just learning of the religions. To you, this would be no laughing matter, I totally agree. Maybe you should take some time out and find out how they feel. Certainly you can't speak for the whole religion, only the negative ones you've encountered. Maybe some of them are hurt by some things said here, or they cry themselves to sleep, worry about what'll be said next.
    They're people and they have feelings, too. However, telling you it's funny is unacceptable.

  7. Hi! I hope you are feeling better, and very glad that you weren't seriously hurt!!

    re: OALC running for school board -- I'm not a member of OALC but ALC.. in my opinion, yes it's very legal for them to run for school board.. and in general I think it's good for Christians to be in public office because they can influence decisions in a positive way.. that's my personal opinion. All Christians should be encouraged to be involved in the things that influence our children. It's good for the school system, and it's good for the LLL churches because they will see what the issues are in public schools, and they will need to need to be tolerant of other points of view in order to be effective as school board members. Things are not so black-and-white.. in effect, it mainstreams us when we get involved. We understand what is true of "the world" and what is not true. "The world" needs the Christian message of an alternative to the hopelessness of the world's system, that there is hope, and there is a more wholesome and positive way. A good thing all the way around. If the person running for school board is inept or ineffective, that will come out too, and they won't be voted in again.


  8. To Anon 1:50--here's the deal. Those of us that grew up in the OALC and related churches KNOW how those people feel. If you are feeling sorry for them, remember they have their whole clique to back them up. I certainly would never consider telling any one of them they are going to hell. That is the worst thing that you can say to another human, as far as I'm concerned. However, since I left that church I have been told that by OALC members. They are tough cookies, unwilling to consider anyone else's beliefs. I love some of the people in the church, but I think their whole belief system is just plain weird!!!

  9. I just wrote the previous post and offer apologies all around. The poster I was answering probably wrote it with the best intentions. It may well be that there are OALC members who feel bad about what is said in these blogs. But, I speak from the standpoint of having experienced, and witnessed, anger and meaness from OALC members towards those souls that have had to leave that church in order to find their way to God. So Poster, you hit a nerve, but I should have taken a deep breath before I answered. I'm sorry.

  10. Hi anon 1:17,
    Try not to take that post seriously. It's not worth it. They sound like someone who for whatever reason is VERY insecure themselves. Why else would they need to put people down whom they've never met? And to compare members and exmembers like they did, means they have NO concept of what the Laestadian churches can be like. Nor the reasons why people need to leave. People don't leave for a lark, or because their "feelings" were hurt. I haven't left the ALC, but I have left behind many of the teachings I grew up with, and that is difficult enough.
    May God be with you.

  11. Just to clarify, I'm talking to the anon who posted concerning the post under Kalevala.

  12. Does anyone want info on the new split in Cokato? Here is official church site:


    This is a new split from the FALC (First Apostolic Lutheran Church) in Cokato.

  13. Anonymouse,
    I don't think any of us take issue with Christians being elected to the school board. I agree that Christ- followers should be involved and have a voice.
    I just have a problem with a known pedophile being solicited to be on the school board.
    And Free was not wondering if it was legal for them to be on the board. She was wondering if it is legal for a church or non-profit organization to become involved in a political system of any kind.

  14. Wonder if it is legal? Just look at the whole Bush administration and their alliances with evangelical Christians.

  15. If it isn't legal, then anyone else that's on the board better not go to any church because it would be illegal for them to be there, too. It's two people, not the whole church.

  16. 12:00AM.. I didn't know about the pedophilia.. that's entirely different. I thought it had to do with music, athletics and art, as Free mentioned at the beginning. AnonyMouse

  17. Known Pedophile? Did I miss something on this blog or is that just a rumor? Just would like to clarify it's credibility. I would think the publicity would crush the campaign. On a different subject, I found it very interesting that our whereabouts/service provider are known to "Free". I'm fine with it since she seems so kind and trustworthy but the beligerant dude seems to have disappeared...no Kuevos maybe? as "Free" Would say.

  18. ...correction..."huevos"....new term to me...

  19. Many Trails Home10/27/2005 12:30:00 PM

    The "belligerent dude" AKA Scoffer/Mocker is still carrying on a rant under "Kalevala." Check it out. I wonder what the motivation is; generally disagreeable maybe, but it definitely keeps things stirred up. . . at a low level, evolution-wise. MTH

  20. I've removed personal names from the following posts, as I can't confirm the allegations. As a public figure, a candidate for school board is open to scrutiny. I would hope that members of the community persist in finding out the truth about the candidate.

    Anonymous said...
    As far as credibility goes, it is a fact that (deleted) repented before the congregation for "offending the little ones".
    It is not unconfirmed gossip; many people are aware of the problem.
    Unfortunately people bend over backwards to show their wonderful forgiveness powers, and invite such people to be on the board.

    Also, to clear up the legality issue. Organizations such as Focus on the Family or Goodwill cannot support a specific political candidate, because of their tax-exempt status. That does not mean a politician cannot be part of an organization or church, simply that the organization or church must steer clear of certain types of involvement.

    Anonymous said...

    That is absolutely horrible, They need to hold his feet to the fire and prosecute him! He can be forgiven and still serve his just punishment. I am ex OALC and have heard rumblings of these things and it sickens me. I would like an OALCer who is lurking out there to come on here and justify the fact that someone could committ this horrible atrocity against a child and go unpunished while a whole congregation of wimps doesn't have the courage to stand up and scream "this is wrong".

    "Offending the little ones"? that's sugar coating it a bit. This destroys the lives of little ones. Those precious little souls are to be nourished and encouraged in life and christianity. Instead they are made to see this horrible person when they go to church and live in fear of reoccurence. This is one issue where keeping it civil does not apply in my opinion. ....(deleted)..... I hope everyone in the BG area shares that name and all the shame that goes with it, with everyone they possibly can.

  21. Here is more information about those candidates:


  22. Oh I love that...if your running for school board and are clueless about any of the issues you just say your opinions and knowledge is "Emerging".

    The child molestor is running unopposed? God help Battle Ground schools.

    He cares about the education of all children? No he doesn't!

  23. Do we know for sure that "offending the little ones" is a euphemism for child molestation? I suspect it is. I may ask my mother outright.
    Has the OALC learned nothing from the Catholic priesthood? Do they read nothing at all in the popular press? Are they completely ignorant of the "disease" pedophilia, and that it is virtually never "cured"? It makes me absolutely furious. I was so horrified by these postings that I had insomnia, "writing" letters in my head.
    NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, comes to the defense or protection of the "little ones" in the OALC. The little ones have no voice, and neither do their mothers. Where is the sisu, where are the "mother bears" defending their young? It seems to be nothing but a bunch of old men protecting each other and the status of their precious "souls". OOOOOh, I can't stand it.
    Molestation has been alive and well in the OALC forever, probably, ever since my mother's generation anyway, and the sins of the fathers are predictably being visited down to the 3rd generation of living relatives. I know of several abusers within my own extended family, who have gotten off Scott free, at least one being a multiple-offender.
    My brother tried going "through channels" with preachers etc and hit stone walls at every turn. Believe me, there is ZERO awareness, understanding, or justice from what I hear. Predictably, only the souls of the (male) perpretators count.
    That was bad enough. But now they are trying to place one of these offenders on the SCHOOL BOARD? You have got to be kidding. Is this consummate arrogance, or what? My only hope is that it blows up in their faces, and "the world" brings some justice and protection to the "little ones," since the preachers and elders are so huevo-less and cannot or will not do it. (Any more than the Catholic priests would.)
    I will be anonymously anonymous this time, even tho my references are quite vague.

  24. OALC members running for school board? That used to be against the rules. "Let the world, run the world!" is a quote I remember from my youth. I guess the rules have changed again.

  25. Just a question. FALC memebers are not discouraged from participating in Halloween. In fact both kids and adult Halloween parties are common. I know some churches are against it. What about the OALC? Just curious.

  26. From what I understand, the OALC kids at my son's school don't participate at all in Halloween or related activities. In my church (IALC), we always had huge Halloween get-togethers held at the church, but one minister was against it, so according to his wishes, it has since been held at private homes. The church Halloween parties were some of the best times of my growing up years.

  27. Parents from the FALC in Cokato host a haunted house for the teenage kids. At least, they have for the last few years. I know the kids in the UP also had a Halloween party. Interesting how they have no problem celebrating Halloween, which is about as anti-christian as your can get... but they are so willing to pick apart small issues like TV and women wearing earrings and makeup...

  28. Here it depends on the families. At least from my point of view(what I see my kids OALC schoolmates doing). I'm ALC, and let my kids go trick or treating, but try to keep it lowkey. It seems harmless enough... kids dressing up and getting way too much candy :-). On the other hand all the gory costumes, scary masks, and other "evil" looking things, rather take the fun out of it. I guess I just don't understand the "why" of that kind of stuff.

  29. But, shouldn't that "lowkey" idea apply to all aspects of life? Many of the apostolics do not get what "everything in moderation" means. Why is it such a big deal in some of the churches if a woman decides to get her ears peirced and wear a little bit of makeup? Why do some people get into people's business so much, especially in the OALC, FALC, and LLC? Instead of allowing things in small portions and teaching their children to be careful with them, they allow NOTHING...I think that explains why the churches are having problems with sexual abuse. These people keep everything inside and it all comes out in a negative way. I have heard that some OALC church members who own their own business, ask the ministers how much they have to pay their workers. Come on now! How do people put up with so much control?

  30. I think it's fear, and they aren't able to believe and have the faith that the Holy Spirit that God gives each believer, will guide them. Sure we all have times when we probably talk about things in our lives with others, but we really do need to have the faith that God will guide us each individually.

    In the ALC, the big deal is more often from individuals, rather than churches, but it depends on which one.
    Why they do it, goes back to not believing/understanding that God guides ALL of us, not just elders, preachers etc.
    I think they put up with it, because in a sense it's easier. That way they don't have to think or pray about it. The rules are there, and they must be right cuz that's what the preacher says and that's how its always been done.


  31. Hi everyone. I Hope everyone had a good Halloween, And everyone is now having a good All-Souls day.

    In the LLC there is church on every Halloween night. It doesn’t matter what weekday it is, it’s to prevent the youth from trick-or-treating and going to parties.

    This year I decided not to celebrate Halloween. Since I wasn’t doing anything, I considered going to the church services, but decided to stay home and play video games instead. Visiting a church where everyone considers you an unbeliever defeats the purpose of going (in a way). But then again, I do miss the life I lived in the LLC. I had such great times.

    I’ve been doing a little research on Halloween. From what I can figure out, the Celts considered October 31 to be the last day of the year, and November 1st was their New years day. They thought that during this time, the barrier between the physical world and the spiritual world was the thinnest, and people that had died could come to our world and vise versa. It wasn’t considered evil or scary, it was just part of their religion.

    When the Roman Catholic Church came around, people where still honoring these three days. Instead of trying to get people to stop, they decided to make Nov 1st All Souls day where they would honor the dead saints. People where going to continue to honor these days anyways, so the church thought they might as well direct it towards the church.

    I’m not going to celebrate a pagan holiday, not this year anyways. I still hope everyone had a good time though. I have some great memories from previous Halloweens’. God bless.

  32. I love Halloween in our little town. The main street is closed off, and kids go from business to business trick-or-treating. What I like about it is seeing parents and grandparents out with their kids, families together, having fun, taking pictures, little babies in fancy costumes, and just the general feeling of close, fun time together. I don't think kids have the slightest notion that this started as a pagen holiday. It's just costumes and candy--all the way! My Grandson and I went to an assisted living places's party. The old folks loved seeing the kids dressed up, playing games, and having fun. Good times all around. The idea of people ENJOYING each other is so grand. People fearing what others might think is so ungrand.

  33. :-) We celebrated Halloween by dressing up and going door to door when I was a child. My cousins and I went to all our old "Aunties" houses, walking through slush and mud most of the time. And those Aunties had the greatest time trying to guess who we all were in our homemade costumes. These Aunts were the Finnish immigrant ALCers, and what a lot of fun they were, they LOVED it! LOL Yeah, and we did Halloween when my kids were growing up too, but nowadays I'm a little disturbed by it.. what with Friday the 13th costumes and all... yuck. I agree with the poster who said she focused on more positive images. That's what I tried to do too. And definitely lowkey. AnonyMouse

  34. In our area-theUP- the OALC kids do celebrate Halloween. I am not sure if they were the "gore"costumes. They will not trick or treat if Halloween is on Sunday, however. One year halloween was on Sunday and one town had trick or treating on Saturday-so that is where they all went. It was a funny because this town expected their usually amount of kids begging for treats and then came the OALC families with their many little ones-and many homes giving out candy were running out and running to the store for more.

    Let the kids trick or treat! It is all about getting the candy anyway.
    I am still eating from my kids bags!!

  35. In my childhood in the OALC, I enjoyed dressing up and going trick or treating with older siblings. Sometimes our neighbors would invite us in -- I have a vivid memory of watching an "old man" (probably 30) stand on his hands for his "trick". Once my sister sewed me an angel costume with wings, and took a photo of me teetering on the picnic table -- it looked like I was flying. When we moved to the country, all that ended (just one of the reasons I now live in a real walking neighborhood). Every year I have a wonderful time planning and sewing costumes with my kids, who see the holiday as a big dress-up occasion and social event. After our kids have had their sugar fix, we buy the rest of their candy and daddy gives it to his coworkers. We have a few guidelines: no commercial costumes, no weapons, and nothing too scary for little visitors. I don't really "get" the folks who make it a gore fest, but the holiday is a good opportunity to talk about death and fear. The Mexicans know something we don't with their Day of the Dead.

  36. In case anyone is wondering one OALCer lost the election, and the other race is still up in the air, with the OALCer slightly behind.... I think though, that the one who lost is the one that some on here were most concerned about. (?)

  37. Many Trails Home11/14/2005 11:39:00 PM

    Thanks for the update. MTH

  38. According to the B.G. Reflector, they both lost.

  39. Just found this blog, so I've been catching up on reading. I'm a former OALC member who left that church quite a few years ago and converted to (gasp!) Catholicism. Now I'm not here to debate that, but with regard to the school board elections, I can tell you that my grandfather -- who immigrated from Finland in 1894 -- served on a school board for many years. Over the years, several other OALC members also served on that board, and there was never a whisper that they shouldn't.