tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post9201917699589664456..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Tomte's thoughts on BaptismUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-87778915621094134282011-03-03T08:04:45.250-08:002011-03-03T08:04:45.250-08:00Tomte,
A very late post, as I've not been in ...Tomte,<br /><br />A very late post, as I've not been in this site for awhile, but would like to add my opinion. <br /><br />As beautiful as your thoughts are, I disagree. I do believe that God is just, righteous, and perfect in all ways and loves all his creation, but we are a fallen creation. We are born with a sin nature. There comes a time in each person's life when we have to make the decision to either follow Christ and be saved by grace (born again) or not. Babies and young children do not have the capability to understand and make that decision. I believe that water baptism should only be performed by an act of a person's will and out of obedience as a result of salvation as a proclamation of a person's faith. I do not believe a person has to be baptized to be saved or vice versa. When a baby is baptized, I do not believe it sanctifies them in any type of future faith. I do think that it takes away from them a decision they should eventually make for themselves. The "outward and visible sign of inward and invisible grace" is the evidence of the born again person. <br /><br />When I was saved at 21, it was natural to then be water baptized.<br /><br />Jackie K.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-25472458686509787192011-01-25T18:01:44.557-08:002011-01-25T18:01:44.557-08:00Catholics don't "believe" in sprinkl...Catholics don't "believe" in sprinkling baptism. They practice the pouring of water over a person's head, as well as immersion for both infants and adults alike -- if there is a facility to do that. It doesn't matter.<br /><br />Regarding multiple baptism, Catholics believe that it doesn't really matter if you re-baptize 76 times -- you were sealed to Christ the first time, and after that what you're doing is getting your hair wet. Sometimes in adult baptism, a person is unsure whether they were ever baptized or not. In that case the priest will baptize with words to the effect that just in case you were never baptized before, then this is your baptism, and leave the determination of whether it is the first or second time up to God.cvowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07542845394936520037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-19383804226271026062011-01-24T08:26:58.418-08:002011-01-24T08:26:58.418-08:00Heh, people have been arguing about adult versus i...Heh, people have been arguing about adult versus infant, immersion versus whatever for over 1000 years. We're not going to settle that one here. :-)<br /><br />One thing I will point out is that Lutherans and others aren't against adult baptism per se. They are just against getting baptized more than once. I've seen adults who weren't already baptized as infants get baptized in the ALC, and also in the Episcopal Church.<br /><br />Is immersion your main issue, or is it adults versus infants? Most of the baptisms performed in the New Testament were of adults, although there is a passage or two that allude to entire households getting baptized at once (even people who probably had no choice in the matter!)Tomtehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500352428811139358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-49921011789744667512011-01-23T16:16:24.283-08:002011-01-23T16:16:24.283-08:00Tomte, it was fairly obvious to me that immersion ...Tomte, it was fairly obvious to me that immersion baptism was the Biblical method of baptism. For example when John the Baptist baptized Jesus it speaks of Jesus coming up out of the water. Sprinkling baptism was essentially a Roman Catholic innovation. When I was in Laestadian circles I ran into a firewall of hostility whenever I brought this subject up. I heard comments such as 'Baptists believe that salvation is in their (immersion) baptism. When I finally got out of Apostolic Lutheranism I got to talk with some Baptists about this subject and in no way do they believe that salvation is because they were immersed when baptized. They simply do it that way because that is what the Bible says to do. I read some of the writings of the 1st century church leaders such as Clemente of Alexander and others. These were people who were mentioned in the New Testament by the Apostles. All of their writings show that they also believed in immersion baptism. It is so interesting how Laestadians can be so adamant that they are the only group with the proper understanding of the Bible yet in fact they remain so blinded to what the Bible actually says clinging to what is essentially a Roman Catholic interpretation of Baptism. Infant baptism seems to be more of a thing where others affirm what I should believe. Immersion baptism seems to be more of an affirmation of what I believe. Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-50559624934215223262007-11-28T20:53:00.000-08:002007-11-28T20:53:00.000-08:00LLLreader sez: I agree Tomte. Baptism is a beaut...LLLreader sez: I agree Tomte. Baptism is a beautiful thing. The act of baptism can be a powerful statement from the parents. What can be more loving then making a public promise to raise your child in a way that would be pleasing to God?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-31953823609861995812007-11-29T05:07:00.000-08:002007-11-29T05:07:00.000-08:00Tomte, that is beautifully written! I have also ...Tomte, that is beautifully written! I have also always believed that baptism in itself does not save, but other Lutheran denominations take the admonition for baptism more literally. They see that certificate of baptism as the sign of a Christian, a seal (LCMS, ELCA and perhaps WELS also). As an ALCer I've always discounted that approach, but recently have taken a second look at it.... perhaps they have something there. Pietism requires outward holiness, but mainstream Lutheranism says be baptized and be saved, period.Norahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16601605468299470951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-41294964646189832662007-11-29T18:40:00.000-08:002007-11-29T18:40:00.000-08:00I see baptism as one of many possible "signs&...I see baptism as one of many possible "signs" of a Christian as well. When I said "baptism doesn't save" I meant it in the sense of "Don't baptize your kid because you think it will save them." I'm at the opposite end of pietism at this point --for me salvation is all about what God has done, not about what people do or don't do.<br><br>Baptize your kid to show the world what God has done, is doing, and will continue to do.Tomtehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08500352428811139358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-26867412007519951892007-12-01T18:50:00.000-08:002007-12-01T18:50:00.000-08:00When we went under the water, we left the old coun...When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind. When we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace, a new life in a new land! That's what baptism into the life of Jesus means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus: when we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus.<br><br>-Romans 6 Message version<br><br>I had my roomate babtize me this last July. It was 5 years after I started going to other churches besideds the LLC. I was spending alot of time meditating on that scripture and i felt compelled to get re-babtized.It was between me and God, and im glad i did it. <br><br>I dont like to argue about what is the proper way to get babtized. I'll let the theologians fight about it. But the outcome is seldom good when christians start fighting with each other.<br><br>Im gunna go grab some food.<br>Love God, Love PeoplePolycarpnoreply@blogger.com