tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post7229111772573665004..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Knapsu & Laestadian Gender RolesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-1633063009842047372005-05-31T23:23:00.000-07:002005-05-31T23:23:00.000-07:00I sure think so--if a person wrote down a list of ...I sure think so--if a person wrote down a list of all the things that are unacceptable for women and compared it to a list of the things that are unacceptable for men in the OALC--I would bet the women's list would be a lot longer. This is a church that allows men all of their vanities, such as trucks and guns and guy stuff, but women are not supposed to want things that appeal to feminine feelings. It's almost like this religion was developed by some old guy that didn't like women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-43629848442002846912005-05-31T23:28:00.000-07:002005-05-31T23:28:00.000-07:00When are the June meetings in Brush Prairie?When are the June meetings in Brush Prairie?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-67748457000977545692005-06-01T03:10:00.000-07:002005-06-01T03:10:00.000-07:00"Tornedalia where Laestadianism runs strong&q..."Tornedalia where Laestadianism runs strong" There lives only reindeers these days - allmost all laestadians have moved south. <br><br>What is the name of that book in english - is it translated?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-40741544942763870712005-06-01T08:07:00.000-07:002005-06-01T08:07:00.000-07:00Look we don't want to be tempted by your femi...Look we don't want to be tempted<br> by your feminine ways. The first<br> time that happened was with Eve<br> with disastrous results!<br> <br> We make the rules so that you<br> don't adorn yourselves and make<br> us lose control once again.<br><br> ( Tongue-in-cheek of course)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-53921589338906037142005-06-02T12:22:00.000-07:002005-06-02T12:22:00.000-07:00I agree with the Tornedalia men. Who wants to be ...I agree with the Tornedalia men.<br><br> Who wants to be a sissy Knapsu!<br><br> But alas there are few men-only<br> options today:<br> Killing moose-Woman Hunters<br> Felling Logs-Woman Machine<br> Operaters<br> Fighting-Woman Boxers<br><br> A partial list of woman:<br><br> Engineers<br> Air Force Pilots<br> Combat Soldiers<br> Long Haul Truck Drivers<br> Wrestlers<br> And the last straw:<br> Indianapolis Race Car Driver<br> <br> How the AntiKnapsu men are <br> going to hold back that tidal<br> wave is difficult to see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-76128954787062314592005-06-02T17:48:00.000-07:002005-06-02T17:48:00.000-07:00What is gender role anyway? It seems to have disap...What is gender role anyway?<br> It seems to have disappeared!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-22467449682252663242005-06-03T07:26:00.000-07:002005-06-03T07:26:00.000-07:00I agree with the first comment posted above. Of c...I agree with the first comment posted above. Of course it's a man's church. Tell me how long you guys would stick around if the OALC were like this:<br><br>Men had to wear scarves; they preached against going to the barber shop for a nice haircut; business meetings leaned toward women's input; men's input wasn't important; men had to listen to women preach; fancy cars and trucks were preached as sinful; hockey nights and other male activities were preached as sinful; fashionable men's clothing was preached as sinful, etc.<br><br>I doubt the men would stick around long. Frankly I'm amazed that so many women put up with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-20789121554960690072005-06-03T09:43:00.000-07:002005-06-03T09:43:00.000-07:00Men-To not be Knapsu (womanish) What's wr...Men-To not be Knapsu (womanish)<br> What's wrong with that?<br> <br> Women-To not be mannish.<br> What's wrong with that?<br><br> What's feminine about female<br> wrestlers, boxers, and combat<br> soldiers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-60960150761088477232005-06-03T10:05:00.000-07:002005-06-03T10:05:00.000-07:00First poster here, aka LLLreader: Have you ever li...First poster here, aka LLLreader: Have you ever listened to some of the Finn "poys" talk about what they shot on their last hunting trip? If that isn't vanity I don't know what the definition would be. Some of these guys go on very long hunting trips, while the little lady is home taking care of kids. My son worked for a time with a group of OALC men. He knew absolutely nothing about how strong the seperation of gender roles can be with some of those families. He is a very masculine, big man, and can diaper a baby, cook a dinner, and do some housework with the best of them. He was stunned at how chauvanistic some of these guys are. He had packed his own lunch one day and the guys couldn't believe it. The discussion started about how much their wives did for them. One guy said his wife made his breakfast, packed his lunch, and then went out and warmed up his truck for him on cold days. All denied ever helping with housework or kids. I'm sure some of that was just boasting, but how idiotic to be proud of how little you do to help your wife. A OALC member I know told me he was going to ask the preachers if it would be alright if his wife had her tubes tied. Her Dr. told her she absolutely shouldn't have more children, since it could be life threatening. This hero has to clear it with the preachers. I say "stand up and be a man-take care of your wife". I do know, however, that there are men in the OALC who are very involved with their kids and help out around home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-48445519800835927172005-06-03T10:43:00.000-07:002005-06-03T10:43:00.000-07:00How about the husband getting a vasectomy so his w...How about the husband getting a vasectomy so his wife doesn't have to go through a surgery - she already had how many of his babies? And what's this having to go ask - just do it and take care of your family. These private family matters have zero to do with salvation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-78545529076592004522005-06-04T15:49:00.000-07:002005-06-04T15:49:00.000-07:00Here we go again! We're generalizing. I can th...Here we go again! We're generalizing. I can think of lots of oalc men who are great fathers, husbands and are not chauvinistic pigs. I agree the women get the short end of the stick at the OALC as far as their rules go. I don't mean to wreck the fun or anything but if we're going to critique let's remember to keep our credibility intact. <br><br>I agree about the vasectomy thing, it seems like the least you could do for your wife but we all know that's not going to happen. It's hard enough for us guys to go through, without the whole damnation thing thrown in as well. I know if I thought it would send me through the gates of hell I would have never gotten mine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-5354737809598150272005-06-04T17:47:00.000-07:002005-06-04T17:47:00.000-07:00I beg your pardon - it's fair to generalize in...I beg your pardon - it's fair to generalize in this case. In general, that's how it is in that church.<br><br>I'm sure it's hard for guys to go through vasectomies - it's also hard for women to go through childbirth, much less time after time after time after time after time after time. And how sad that men believe they would be eternally damned if they take action to help take care of their wives and children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-44682439263438289782005-06-05T06:44:00.000-07:002005-06-05T06:44:00.000-07:00My point is your making the men look like such cre...My point is your making the men look like such creeps. I know a lot of OALC men who are great husbands and have loving wives who don't "warm up their trucks for them", in fact the ones I know would be sleeping in the garage if they suggested it. If outsiders read this blog their getting an exagerated view in my opinion.<br><br>Neither the men or women would accept vasectomies or any form of birth control. This is not an OALC exclusive. I have a good friend who is Catholic who is adamant against this as well. He let me know how he felt when I had my vasectomy, which was kind of strange being rebuked by someone who was not OALC. I'm accustomed to the OALC rebuke and I must say it was kind of fun to be chastized by a different belief system for a change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-88186093039083722922005-06-05T07:50:00.000-07:002005-06-05T07:50:00.000-07:00I grew up in an area where the preacher who wielde...I grew up in an area where the preacher who wielded the most power and influence was a hostile, anti-female, insecure man. You're talking an entire congregation with many women, wives, daughters, and little girls, under his spell. He's old now and doesn't preach much, but he's made his mark for the next few generations, unless people have the strength and wisdom to open their eyes. Yet what you hear is how "precious" it all is.<br>No thanks. Hey, if you like it, go for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-55121873478579326172005-06-05T08:48:00.000-07:002005-06-05T08:48:00.000-07:00How many women are compromising their beliefs as m...How many women are compromising<br> their beliefs as mentioned<br> elsewhere in this blog to save<br> their marriage and hold their<br> family together?<br> <br><br> Is this wrong?<br><br> How do they get out of this<br> dilemma?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-69731545670845091402005-06-05T09:36:00.000-07:002005-06-05T09:36:00.000-07:00To the poster above who talks about great OALC hus...To the poster above who talks about great OALC husbands - that is true. But where are they when they should be speaking out for women? Why their silence about sex abuse? You'd think they'd be outraged that nothing is said. These great husbands go to church, sit there, go home, and say and do nothing to help change things. I'm sure they're afraid to rock the boat, or to take on a "reputation".<br><br>To the poster above who asks "how do they get out of this dilemma?", it's difficult but not impossible. Doing the right thing is not always the easiest route. It just depends on what is important to you. If it's more important to compromise your beliefs, then that is what you will do. These kinds of actions go on everyday, all around us, at work, at school, in politics.<br><br>If you want out bad enough, you'll find a way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-21342679967137214322005-06-05T15:56:00.002-07:002005-06-05T15:56:00.002-07:00The OALC men are sure catching hell on this site. ...The OALC men are sure catching<br> hell on this site.<br><br> Where are the woman in these<br> matters? Are they 100% off the<br> hook?<br><br> Why did they marry these guys<br> in the first place? Didn't they<br> learn from their own mom's<br> treatment? <br><br> Why did the husbands pick these<br> women?They must of liked their<br> non-assertive behavior.<br><br> Why did the wives pick these<br> men? They could see their<br> dominant behavior.<br> <br> And the list goes on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-18327018253413986402005-06-05T15:56:00.001-07:002005-06-05T15:56:00.001-07:00The OALC men are sure catching hell on this site. ...The OALC men are sure catching<br> hell on this site.<br><br> Where are the woman in these<br> matters? Are they 100% off the<br> hook?<br><br> Why did they marry these guys<br> in the first place? Didn't they<br> learn from their own mom's<br> treatment? <br><br> Why did the husbands pick these<br> women?They must of liked their<br> non-assertive behavior.<br><br> Why did the wives pick these<br> men? They could see their<br> dominant behavior.<br> <br> And the list goes on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-88865990365528987842005-06-06T13:54:00.000-07:002005-06-06T13:54:00.000-07:00No, women aren't off the hook for decisions th...No, women aren't off the hook for decisions they make. The point is that women don't count for much in the OALC. They're wanted to cook meals and clean up in the kitchen there. And they don't seem to mind!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-55595425204998819262005-06-06T17:39:00.000-07:002005-06-06T17:39:00.000-07:00I certainly am not saying that all OALC men are cr...I certainly am not saying that all OALC men are creeps. What some of them do in terms of how they treat their wives is to just do what they have been taught. What some men don't understand is that there is a more Godly way to live then the way they are living now. I'm going to give two bad examples of statements made by men I know concerning their wives. At a family gathering one cousin said with some degree of contempt, "I don't know when "Sally" is going to give me another kid. "Sally", who I know has some health issues, looked stricken. This poor gal is a failure in her husbands eyes. I think he is a creep. At another gathering there was some discussion about a Dr. telling someone to not have any more children. A guy made the comment, "If a Dr. told my wife to not have more kids I would divorce her". Definitely a creep. There are other OALC men who are kind, wonderful husbands. The difficulity with this religion is that it allows for male abuse of power. Some of the OALC families could have better lives if they would take back the power they give the preachers and give it to God where it belongs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-54670730044609543522005-06-07T09:20:00.000-07:002005-06-07T09:20:00.000-07:00I will say it is unfair to generalize the entire c...I will say it is unfair to generalize the entire church, because in different localities (i.e. Minneapolis and Detroit-- hmm... more educated, maybe?) I have seen men that are more active in their children's and wife's life. In Washington, however, they are generally lumps. <br>Not because they are terrible, but because that is what they have been taught and all they have ever seen.<br>I have never seen my husband be such a great father and spouse until after he came out of the church. I am so proud of how far he has come, and he would tell you that himself.<br>I do have to say, I have gone on some of my kid's field trips and seen OALC fathers there with their children. <br>Way to go, guys!!!!exoalchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12195180245552127271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-20939962097261977762005-06-07T23:13:00.000-07:002005-06-07T23:13:00.000-07:00"they are generally lumps", "I thin..."they are generally lumps", "I think he is a creep"<br><br>Thank You! You are so sweet! Aarne Tanninen / WashingtonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-73482190049861233162005-06-08T10:53:00.000-07:002005-06-08T10:53:00.000-07:00Well Aarne--I see you went right for the words th...Well Aarne--I see you went right for the words that you could be offended by and feel some of that old OALC resentment that some folks do so well. Didn't you read these statements? "There are other OALC men who are kind, wonderful husbands", "I know a lot of OALC men who are great husbands", "A lot of OALC men are great fathers, husbands, and not chauvinistic pigs", "I'm certainly not saying all OALC men are creeps", "There are men in the OALC that are very involved with their kids and help around the house". I thought that most posters wanted to temper their comments with the recognition that not all OALC men are thoughtless towards their wives. If you read the posts that's what you would see if you were looking with an open mind. The point folks are making is that the old way of treating women like cattle isn't good for anyone, including the men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-86476844768222740292005-06-08T13:22:00.000-07:002005-06-08T13:22:00.000-07:00Hey Aarne, Where do you fall in here? Are yo...Hey Aarne,<br> <br> Where do you fall in here? Are you a lump or do you treat your wife well? Something to think about, huh?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-68735838447916330582005-06-08T15:16:00.000-07:002005-06-08T15:16:00.000-07:00Hi, It seems to me that the issue is not whether t...Hi, It seems to me that the issue is not whether there are "good" husbands/fathers, for of course there are. But that the actions/words of the ones who treat their family with no respect, are acceptable in the eyes of the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com