tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post6446513889701500403..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: It's Not an Agenda, SirUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-85918300744414325152006-01-28T17:37:00.000-08:002006-01-28T17:37:00.000-08:00Thanks for posting the article...Interesting but n...Thanks for posting the article...Interesting but not surprising :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-30835107156144120012006-01-29T05:18:00.000-08:002006-01-29T05:18:00.000-08:00You are so sophisticated and tolerant that you are...You are so sophisticated and tolerant that you are forgetting the teachings of the Bible.<br><br>Where is YOUR limit? Maybe the next wave is animal sex.. will you be supporting those rights, too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-2966931327762419902006-01-29T07:27:00.000-08:002006-01-29T07:27:00.000-08:00I am an educator. I live in an area where gay rig...I am an educator. I live in an area where gay rights in our local high schools have not been an issue. I am grateful that we are not going there, for now. As an ex-OLACer I am glad the blog is willing to talk about this subject.<br>I do not think you should be attacked for trying to discuss this issue.<br><br>I do know that the high schools in my area are filled with conflict because the apostolic children are being arrogant over their perceived feelings "that they alone are the chosen". Fights are the result! <br><br>Is this club being formed because the high school children who are gay are being teased/tormented? <br><br>Of course we can not pull out all clubs in a high school. Does this adult realize how much the high school clubs are enjoyed by the students and the community?<br>BG is doing the right thing, by putting it up to a community vote.<br><br>This is a hard topic for all concerned. Keep us posted. And perhaps we all need to pray for <br>BG?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-78327692588098914952006-01-29T10:31:00.000-08:002006-01-29T10:31:00.000-08:00For myself, I feel that I would be sinning to god ...For myself, I feel that I would be sinning to god if I was gay/lesbian. <br>BUT...Can I judge that for another person? No! If I did that, I feel that would also be a sin.<br>Is creating and enforcing rules against gays and lesbians going to keep the sin from happening? Look at all the rules the OALC has created for themselves. Yes, some of them follow them...but I know many of them do a lot of "worldly" things when nobody in their church can see what they are doing.<br><br>The way I see this is...we don't know what struggles these people are going through in their lives. We don't know if they are just confused or really have those feelings for the same gender. Unless you have been in their situation, you have no right to judge them. Instead of putting judgements against them and making all of these laws that discriminate against them, why don't we show them love? Why don't we talk to them about Christ and his love towards all people? Why don't we invite them to church with us? Your church shouldn't be just for those with the perfect apostolic life. The doors should be open to everyone. And don't even tell me that the different apostolic churches are welcoming because if you look from the outside, they are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-29749941070585249922006-01-30T15:24:00.000-08:002006-01-30T15:24:00.000-08:00I feel that homosexuals shouldn't be discrimin...I feel that homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated against as far as jobs etc no more than any race should be. I do draw the line at marriage. I think that our Father has stated what "makes" marriage in the Book of life instruction that he has left us. In our Father's eyes two men or two women having sex is no different than all of the straight people that have sex "outside" of the institution of marriage. I agree that they don't have the same opportunity as a hetrosexual to get married but such is life. It is not always fair. It is no more fair for someone to be born gay than it is for someone to be born with downs syndrome, spina bifida or any number of birth defects. They also must walk a different path. It is just the way life is. Who are we to question God? Our ways are not His ways.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-6481606657012139482006-01-30T16:22:00.000-08:002006-01-30T16:22:00.000-08:00To the angry poster above, of course I have limits...To the angry poster above, of course I have limits. As for animal sex, they are continuing to have it (the evidence is at the grocery store). I think you meant interspecies sex, which is a pathetic straw man. When women and blacks won the right to vote, was it extended to kangaroos as well? To pet chinchillas? I think not.<br><br>The problem here is misinformed people who continue to think of homosexuality as deviant, so they lump it in with truly deviant stuff. A recent article in Time magazine pointed out that homosexual behavior occurs in more than 450 species. That's a lot, 450. And whether it is 5% or 10% of our species, it is more like left-handedness than Down's Syndrome.<br><br>As for the Bible, please consider the possibility that the scriptures are products of their time. What was chosen for inclusion in them, including the claims of inerrancy, was decided by the 318 men of Nicea. <br><br>We must see beyond the fear and shouting to the wholeness offered in Christ. Even Biblical literalists do not want disobedient children or victims of incest to be put to death, nor do they deny communion to the disabled. <br><br>God's peace to all.Julie Whitehornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16921829370327742832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74589092836436510942006-01-31T00:56:00.000-08:002006-01-31T00:56:00.000-08:00I think the social and religious aspects should be...I think the social and religious aspects should be separated. We live in a multicultural society and as a consequence we should be tolerant to other views than our own. I wouldn't like Muslims prohibiting the Christians to drink wine or forcing the Christian women to wear veils. That's why I don't feel like I have the right to demand prohibition of homosexual behavior, either. And as there are homosexual couples, I guess it would be reasonable that they had an opportunity to registrate their relationships in order to be able to inherit each other if one of them dies etc. But I wouldn't approve of forcing other people to homosexual behavior (or any other behavior) or homosexual couples adopting children because that would affect the lives of other human beings. And of course, homosexual behavior being against the Holy Christian Tradition, any blessing of homosexual relationships in church is absolutely out of question.theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-38437557836307663752006-01-31T05:01:00.000-08:002006-01-31T05:01:00.000-08:00Then, theoforos, please be tolerant of the OALC vi...Then, theoforos, please be tolerant of the OALC views.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-45373838882747119132006-01-31T05:59:00.000-08:002006-01-31T05:59:00.000-08:00I am tolerant of the OALC views, to the same exten...I am tolerant of the OALC views, to the same extent as I'm tolerant of the views of Muslims or gay rights activists. It's OK as long as they are not forcing other people to live according to the oalc rules. In this case it seems like they are trying to impose traditional Christian values on people who don't share the traditional Christian values.<br><br>If some people want to start clubs that don't conform to the traditional Christian values, it's none of other people's business. If Christians drink wine (all Christians do at least at the communion), or don't want to cover their heads in public, it's none of the Muslims' business. And if Christians don't want to marry same-sex couples, it's none of the gay right activists' business. That is tolerance, all sub-groups of the society are allowed to live according to their own principles and values without harming each other and without forcing each other to conform to values that they don't approve of.theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-66260860419403751972006-01-31T08:05:00.000-08:002006-01-31T08:05:00.000-08:00Your views on tolerance are commendable. Your appe...Your views on tolerance are commendable. Your appeal to Holy Christian Tradition, however, needs rethinking. It was Christian Tradition in the 16th and 17th centuries to oppose Copernicus and Galileo. In the 18th and 19th centuries, Christian Tradition supported the practice of slavery and opposed both the use of vaccinations and the ideas of Charles Darwin. In the 20th century, segregation and apartheid were considered Christian Tradition. Now it is women and gays who struggle against an "unholy" Tradition that uses the Bible as moral justification for prejudice. Someday it will all seem as quaint as a flat earth. Meanwhile, those of us in the Church must see with angels' eyes.Julie Whitehornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16921829370327742832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-80505436210810095062006-01-31T11:52:00.000-08:002006-01-31T11:52:00.000-08:00Please, theoforos, tell me how OALCers are forcing...Please, theoforos, tell me how OALCers are forcing you to live their way? If someone doesn't want to share traditional Christian values, they won't. But that doesn't mean the OALCers can't speak their minds and beliefs. Or is it a free country to everyone but the OALCers since everything they do is pretty much 'forcing' you to think as they do?<br>And some thought the OALCers were narrow-minded! :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-51216315397578173752006-01-31T13:07:00.000-08:002006-01-31T13:07:00.000-08:00To Anonymous "D": You are being complet...To Anonymous "D": You are being completely ridiculous, if I must say so. Theoforos is using the generic and not suggesting that the OALCers are forcing him personally. The "forcing" being referred to is the suggestion by the OALCers that BG high school disband all clubs in order to FORCE the BG high school to disband the Gay-Straight Alliance. Is that not forcing your way and beliefs onto the community? Sure sounds like it to me.Many Trails Homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-4816639325475625042006-01-31T23:51:00.000-08:002006-01-31T23:51:00.000-08:00ManyTrailsHome got what I mean, the anononymous :D...ManyTrailsHome got what I mean, the anononymous :D didn't. <br><br>The OALC is not forcing me to anything, but they are forcing other people to shut down a club because the club is not consistent with the OALC views. In my opinion, it would be totally OK for the oalcers to say that they consider homosexual behavior to be a sin, but they are going much further than that. Forcing other people to act according to your views is not the same as telling them what you think. Got it now?theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-18450955946541918522006-01-31T23:57:00.000-08:002006-01-31T23:57:00.000-08:00Free2beme, the things you mentioned have not been ...Free2beme, the things you mentioned have not been a big issue in the Eastern Christian tradition, which I have found more reliable than the Western Christian tradition, which in many regards has been distorted along the way.theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-17816577203922722362006-02-01T12:01:00.000-08:002006-02-01T12:01:00.000-08:00The only things people are 'forced' to do ...The only things people are 'forced' to do are die and pay taxes. Ever hear that? If you don't want to disband clubs, speak up. We have the right, as Americans, to the freedom of speech. If you're feeling forced, that's your problem. Nobody is forced to do what they don't want. If others want to be pushed around by the OALC beliefs, they don't have enough balls to point out their views. Why aren't you out there protesting since you feel so strongly about it? They need all the help they can get.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-46690447857811357042006-02-01T14:12:00.000-08:002006-02-01T14:12:00.000-08:00I am curious what this alliance club would do. Wh...I am curious what this alliance club would do. What would be its purpose?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-65343965327773816602006-02-01T19:08:00.000-08:002006-02-01T19:08:00.000-08:00I read this blog occasionally and just have to say...I read this blog occasionally and just have to say a few words to the folks who have been commenting.<br>This blog is suppose to help the people who left a sect adjust to life outside of a church that does not preach the true word of God.<br>God so loves the world that he gave his only son....<br>Let us note the words LOVE. Yes, Christ does love the "world" even if they are gay. A Gay Straight Alliance club is to help prevent gays from being mistreated in our communities-in this case school. The people in Battle Ground voted against this.<br>Let's hope they don't vote against <br>Basketball, football, hockey, choir, art, etc. That too could end up being against "community standards" if the OLACer take over too much political control. <br><br>Those of us who left this church do need a place to process what is happening and has happened to us.<br>That is why we write here...on this blog. We have opinions of this church and we do voice them.<br>It is America, after all. If we keep talking and informing each other of what is going on in other communities, perhaps we can stop in from happening where we live. <br><br><br>I pray for BG and its children.<br>Gay or straight, OLACer and nonOLACer. <br><br>We are all God's children!<br><br>God's Peace!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-51387262848490871292006-02-02T06:03:00.000-08:002006-02-02T06:03:00.000-08:00Here's another questions to ponder...What good...Here's another questions to ponder...<br><br>What good to OALC churches/congregations do for a community? Surely, their must be something that I'm not seeing because right now, I see it only as an exclusive group of people that does nothing good for anyone but themselves. If any OALCers have been involved in making a positive difference in the community, (volunteering, etc) I would like to know. In other words, what are the fruits of the OALCer's faith? Judging?<br><br>Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-29561997022175384922006-02-02T06:22:00.000-08:002006-02-02T06:22:00.000-08:00anon above; What are the fruits of Your faith? H. ...anon above; <br><br>What are the fruits of Your faith? <br><br>H. FinnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-70040793180492751462006-02-02T09:01:00.000-08:002006-02-02T09:01:00.000-08:00Well, if you think I am judging the Old Apostolics...Well, if you think I am judging the Old Apostolics by calling them "judgemental", I only came to that assumption from the article in the Columbian.<br><br>Here is some text from the bible about the fruits of faith: <br>Text: Romans 12, 1-6. 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service. 2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace that was given me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but so to think as to think soberly, according as God bath dealt to each man a measure of faith. 4 For even as we have many members in one body, and all the members have not the same office: 5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and severally members one of another. And having gifts differing according to the grace that was given to us. <br><br>Here is part of Martin Luther's sermon on this:<br><br>5. As I have frequently stated, the suffering and work of Christ is to be viewed in two lights: First, as grace be- stowed on us, as a blessing conferred, requiring the exercise of faith on our part and our acceptance of the salvation offered. Second, we are to regard it an example for us to follow; we are to offer up ourselves for our neighbors' benefit and for the honor of God. This offering is the exercise of our love distributing our works for the benefit of our neighbors. He who so does is a Christian. He becomes one with Christ, and the offering of his body is identical with the offering of Christ's body. This is what Peter calls offering sacrifices acceptable to God by Christ. He describes priesthood and offering in these words: "Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priest- hood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 2, 5. <br><br>6. Peter says "spiritual sacrifices," but Paul says our bodies are to be offered up. While it is true that the body is not spirit, the offering of it is called a spiritual sacrifice because it is freely sacrificed through the Spirit, the Christian being uninfluenced by the constraints of the Law or the fear of hell. Such motives, however, sway the ecclesiasts, who have heaped tortures upon themselves by undergoing fasts, uncomfortable clothing, vigils, hard beds and other vain and difficult performances, and yet failed to attain to this spiritual sacrifice. Rather, they have wandered the farther from it because of their neglect to mortify their old Adam-like nature. They have but increased in presumption and wickedness, thinking by their works and merits to raise themselves in God's estimation. Their penances were not intended for the mortification of their bodies, but as works meriting for them superior seats in heaven. Properly, then, their efforts may be regarded a carnal sacrifice of their bodies, unacceptable to God and most acceptable to the devil. <br><br>I got this from the site: http://www.peacemakers.net/unity/ml71.htm<br><br>Since the OALCer's are "Lutherans", do they agree with what Martin Lutheran said in this sermon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-9829569780342552862006-02-02T16:00:00.000-08:002006-02-02T16:00:00.000-08:00The Old Apostolic Lutherans do good works only amo...The Old Apostolic Lutherans do good works only amoung themselves. The help each other build houses and provide for each other when they are sick. However, they usually do not believe in helping the worldly. I am sure there are exceptions to this. However, when Hurricane Catrina happened, a common theme amoung the OALCers was that they don't care what happened to those people because they were living worldly lives.<br><br>Their sacrafices are to have many children, without regard to the woman's body. The men do without ties, because the devil can hang on this tie. They don't watch TV, because what if Jesus comes and they are engaged in this worldly pursuit.<br><br>They feel that they are "Christians" and those who don't belong to their church are of the world. The "Christian" church according to them started in Sweden by Laestadius. <br><br>They do not extend the saying "God's Peace" to anyone but those in their church. This is a beautiful saying!<br><br>So, as I part,<br>God's Peace!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-42100839978682314902006-02-02T16:05:00.000-08:002006-02-02T16:05:00.000-08:00So, if they only do good things amongst themselves...So, if they only do good things amongst themselves, what good are these OALC churches doing for the community, for this nation, for this world?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-30878769016776939052006-02-02T16:06:00.000-08:002006-02-02T16:06:00.000-08:00The churches might as well not exist...nobody woul...The churches might as well not exist...nobody would realize if they weren't there...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-45176579577435406712006-02-02T16:31:00.000-08:002006-02-02T16:31:00.000-08:00I would like to hear from anyone who may be accept...I would like to hear from anyone who may be accepting of homosexuality (as not being "sin")of your reconciliation with scriptur which seems to be pretty clear that it's an abomination. Do you feel that the Bible is fallible after all, or that this does not really apply to today's culture, or what???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-32347806642056547722006-02-02T21:02:00.000-08:002006-02-02T21:02:00.000-08:00Perhaps the Bible doesn't say what you think i...Perhaps the Bible doesn't say what you think it says. <br>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9094/homosexuality2.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com