tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post4417849377476115807..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Something Laestadian, or Just Me?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-37402719131445796152009-07-03T07:32:06.511-07:002009-07-03T07:32:06.511-07:00My reaction is that this way of telling a story wo...My reaction is that this way of telling a story would be very effective for the instruction of children. I liked it very much, but I am a creationist... Is that what you objected to? That we are all descendant of Abraham?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-1928227981513281992009-07-03T07:50:44.996-07:002009-07-03T07:50:44.996-07:00My reaction...hm..it was good. A good way to teach...My reaction...hm..it was good. A good way to teach kids. We had something sort of like this growing up in the LLC. They would use those old boards (I can't think of what they are called!!). They are fuzzy, and certain paper sticks to them. They would hang up pictures to illustrate to us what was going on. But the stories weren't like that, that I remember. This story sounded more like one that would be told in the church we attend now.YMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-59496144929676191082009-07-03T09:19:01.035-07:002009-07-03T09:19:01.035-07:00According to the Bible, and according to historica...According to the Bible, and according to historical facts, all people are not descendants of Abraham, only people with Semitic ancestry are. Of course, you can say that all who share Abraham's faith are his spiritual descendants, but the Godly Play seemed to give an impression that all people are physical descendants of Abraham.<br><br>Apart from this apparent flaw, I think this is a good way of teaching children. It keeps their attention and makes the story interesting to follow. Actually I think this is way better than showing them a movie. The problem with movies is that they leave no room for imagination, which I think was not a problem in this case.Hibernatusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-73665026358789626302009-07-03T13:59:25.998-07:002009-07-03T13:59:25.998-07:00I really like this method. The only problem I hav...I really like this method. The only problem I have with it is that it covers a lot of ground in a few minutes.. there's enough material for at least three stories here, plus one that is not mentioned at all and is not really appropriate for young children, and that is the story of Hagar. But I like the visual aspect of it, just like the Flannelgraphs...<br><br>And if it's followed by a question and answer time, then that's even better.Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-55097142283023946952009-07-04T04:18:43.773-07:002009-07-04T04:18:43.773-07:00The Godly Play website says this: "The stori...The Godly Play website says this: "The stories are told very simply, with simple props, and without interpretation or moral instruction. After a story is presented, the children and the storyteller wonder together about aspects of the story that draw their interest. For instance, with the parable of the Good Shepherd, they might wonder together how the sheep felt as they followed the shepherd. Or whether the sheep have names. Or how it might feel to be inside the sheepfold."<br><br>I like the fact that the stories are presented without interpretation. Children will often surprise you with their insights, and you learn along with them, instead of you interpreting it for them.<br><br>Happy 4th of July everyone!Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-85314567923872016022009-07-04T08:42:52.591-07:002009-07-04T08:42:52.591-07:00LLLreader here: As my Grandma would say, "Hap...LLLreader here: As my Grandma would say, "Happy Fort-jew-lie-dah".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-64840400978456621742009-07-04T09:22:32.648-07:002009-07-04T09:22:32.648-07:00Good news Tomte! My English USA focused video abou...Good news Tomte! My English USA focused video about laestadianism is ready now. I hope you can make a post about it. :-)<br><br>Link:<br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvTDbjKSXV4<br><br>(When I made this post, Youtbe was still processing the video. If it is not available for viewing in a few hours, I will upload it again, so have patience..)Laestadianinfohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvTDbjKSXV4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-7624108272322952142009-07-04T20:18:12.889-07:002009-07-04T20:18:12.889-07:00The video is beautiful. The music warms my heart ...The video is beautiful. The music warms my heart - thank you!Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-76087664915598202092009-07-05T02:58:14.715-07:002009-07-05T02:58:14.715-07:00I saw the video on youtube and it was such a lovel...I saw the video on youtube and it was such a lovely songs in it! I can now see that there are some differences in how the laestadianism is organised in America and in Scandinavia. I really enjoy reading everything you all write and debate.Miss Swedennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-37575426002043166662009-07-05T03:10:16.397-07:002009-07-05T03:10:16.397-07:00Hello again!I got a question earlier and I hope yo...Hello again!<br>I got a question earlier and I hope you don´t mind me answering it here. (i´ts OT from this post)<br>The question was about how the Laestadian church is talked about where I live.<br>I live in Swedish Lapland and here we have big congregations og different laestadian churches. The most discussed one is the "firstborns". Now I don´t remeber what you call them, but hey are the most strict ones as I see it. They wear headcoverings at church (women) men dont wear ties to their shirts. All women have long hair and they are against birth control. No music instruments (not even at church), no radio in cars. Everything is to be sipmle. What people in generally talk about these laestadians is their double standards. Like how come so many are smoking, watching tv (wich is a no no) and then hiding it in a closet etc... The second thing people say is that they say they "choose" to live like this, but who is making their decisions really? I have friends who are a part of this church and I sometimes try talk to them a little bit bout this, but I always trie to be gentle and not make them uneasy. For me, I feel that there is no joy or happines connected between theese people and God. That God is so harsh.<br>I find it hard to make myself understood here, my english language is so not up to date :o)<br>But I hope you understand something anyway. Please ask if you want.Miss Swedennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-45522941733553780162009-07-05T07:30:47.851-07:002009-07-05T07:30:47.851-07:00I loved that first song on the video! The LLC bran...I loved that first song on the video! The LLC branch doesn't do any "loop-de-loops" in their songs (if you know what I mean..). They feel it's sinful..why, I don't know!! The 2nd song is also song by the LLC, but I think it's more "flat". Once again-no "loop-de-doops". hehe. Interesting video! So, the OALC is the strictest? Then the LLC? Thats kind of what I got. Or are their branches in between those?YMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-526076320364236532009-07-05T09:55:09.526-07:002009-07-05T09:55:09.526-07:00Well OALC here in finland is conservative concerni...Well OALC here in finland is conservative concerning clothing and such things, but on other hand very open minded.<br><br>ALC is perhaps between LLC and OALC. Not as conservative as OALC, but more conservative than LLC (in Finland and Sweeden).<br><br>The reason I say OALC is open minded, is that they are very pragmatic. <br><br>For example did Finish state television a movie about OALC mission work in Russia a few moths ago. The movie was named "Toksovan kummit".<br><br>The state television rarely publish anything positive about religion, but this about 45 minute movie only positive. There was not a word negative about OALC.<br><br>On other hand the movie was generally about mission work in Toksova, but since OALC is almost the only church doing the mission work there, the movie was 90% about OALC.<br><br>Another interesting thing concerning positive publicity about laestadiaism, was a few moths ago when a major news paper in Finland made an investigation where people are most happy. They combined different statistics (health, divorces, voting activity etc.), and made comparisions between municipalities.<br><br>The municipality that had most laestadians was the most happy in Finland. This is Larsmo in Ostrobotnia, where about 50% are laestadians (ALC branch).Laestadianinfohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZMtacol5knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-48243142443399902282009-07-05T13:00:04.142-07:002009-07-05T13:00:04.142-07:00"loop-de-loops"No, I don´t understand wh..."loop-de-loops"<br><br>No, I don´t understand what is that? <br><br>Is it that they don´t sing in harmonies?Miss Swedennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-19651973504397454902009-07-05T13:20:53.527-07:002009-07-05T13:20:53.527-07:00Miss Sweden, I think he meant they repeated parts ...Miss Sweden, I think he meant they repeated parts of the lyric in a way differing from the song text?<br><br>The music was from ALC in USA.<br><br>Regarding singing, here is a song more typical for laestadians in your area (ALC in Sweden).<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEgRwRBp8sLaestadianinfohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEgRwRBp8snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-40563767372564140252009-07-05T13:30:02.595-07:002009-07-05T13:30:02.595-07:00Never heard the song but it was beautiful. Sounds ...Never heard the song but it was beautiful. Sounds like something they could sing at OALC meeting but then of course without the music played to it.<br>I have been to meeting at OALC and they sing only with voices no music instruments. <br>Very intresting to see at you youtube channel. Thanks.Miss Swedennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-85339949295452447932009-07-05T13:51:38.845-07:002009-07-05T13:51:38.845-07:00I don't know if you are aware of it Tomte, but...I don't know if you are aware of it Tomte, but you have a sister blog in Finland (http://freepathways.wordpress.com).<br><br>This is focused on criticing LLC.<br><br>Is it only ALC everyone are happy with? ;-)Laestadianinfohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEgRwRBp8snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-79639613027027882492009-07-05T15:12:45.268-07:002009-07-05T15:12:45.268-07:00Hi Miss Sweden, you talked about the double standa...Hi Miss Sweden, you talked about the double standard, and I think that is something that people criticize about all of the various branches. I've heard this many times, and often from people who witnessed their parents doing things like hiding a radio or tv when church people came to visit. As a current member, I have wanted to live an authentic life. If I believe something is wrong, I don't do it. If I don't see anything wrong with it, then I go ahead and do it. Simple as that.<br><br>There is a purpose for members of a church encouraging and supporting each other, and warning their friends and loved ones when they see them straying away and into danger. I think this is something that could be considered universal among all religions. But Laestadians have created so many things which are supposedly sins, there has been no consistency among the various groups as to what exactly is sin, and the list has changed over time! I think the New Testament is very clear that we should not hinder someone if they believe certain things are sin; but neither should we create manmade lists. We are not to follow the 'traditions of men'.<br><br>The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the Holy Spirit guides us and prompts us to obedience. Too often we have looked to 'man' to guide us, and have taken our eyes off the Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder how many people have looked to tradition and thought they were on the right path.<br><br>www.internetmonk.com has come up with a term - "denomination idolatry'. He is referring to a Baptist denomination, but maybe the same thing could be said about many Laestadian churches and the leaders of those churches. Do we raise them so high that we idolize them? Should they be the last word, or should we follow the leading of the Holy Spirit!? It's always about a relationship with God, and not about which denomination any person belongs to.<br><br>Laestadianinfo - your video mentions Lapp Mary. I was thinking today that she did for Laestadius what many years of psychiatric therapy probably could not have done. She showed him that he is indeed forgiven and it gave him freedom of conscience. So many people are on medications for mental conditions today. What would your thoughts be about that! :-)Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-90395738263591766512009-07-05T15:29:50.782-07:002009-07-05T15:29:50.782-07:00Laestadianinfo, you asked if it's only the ALC...Laestadianinfo, you asked if it's only the ALC that everyone is happy with.. the answer to that is no, there are many who are not happy with the ALC. Our poster PS is one of them, and many people have left over the years. I have two older sisters who left when they got married way back in the early 1960's :-), so it's not unusual. I don't ever remember anyone talking about them in a negative way because of which church they went to, although my family was a mix of many different faiths anyway...<br><br>And there is so much variety in the ALC that it's impossible to categorize it as a group, at least in the US. Those are my thoughts about it.Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-87380397922898692592009-07-05T21:34:39.310-07:002009-07-05T21:34:39.310-07:00I don't really know how to describe "loop...I don't really know how to describe "loop-de-doops". It is in the songs tune, usually between sentences, where the singers go either up or down. Does that make any sense? Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? The LLC's singing is very "flat" compared to the first song in the video.YMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-38743442621618173072009-07-06T07:09:04.645-07:002009-07-06T07:09:04.645-07:00"And there is so much variety in the ALC that..."And there is so much variety in the ALC that it's impossible to categorize it as a group, at least in the US. Those are my thoughts about it."<br><br>Can you eloborate about it? I have read other sources about this. I would like to know some details.<br><br>Have been a few times to USA, but never to an ALC church, so I don't really know people there very well.Laestadianinfohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEgRwRBp8snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-35739765761990645042009-07-06T07:35:20.834-07:002009-07-06T07:35:20.834-07:00Free here. Thanks to Tomte for doing such a splend...Free here. Thanks to Tomte for doing such a splendid job with this site, and to all of you for the interesting and respectful dialogue.<br><br>YM, could your "loop de loops" be glissando, sliding up or down to the next note? I suspect that for some, glissando and vibrato are considered "showing off."Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-82847423477765334502009-07-06T08:15:19.473-07:002009-07-06T08:15:19.473-07:00Yes Free, that is what I mean!! And yea, the LLC t...Yes Free, that is what I mean!! And yea, the LLC thinks its showing off, and wrong...I don't know where they got the word "loop-de-doop" from, but that's what I always heard them call it.<br><br>I love that first song on the video, Laestadianinfo-what is the name of that song?YMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-2649503765995485992009-07-06T10:18:12.307-07:002009-07-06T10:18:12.307-07:00Laestadianinfo, you asked about variety in the US ...Laestadianinfo, you asked about variety in the US ALC. I can only give you my very limited perspective, as I am more of an observer and listener and not actively involved in any church other than my own small congregation. But this is what I observe and hear, and are some examples of differences: Some ALC churches are very conservative, maybe almost like OALC. They are conservative in dress, in music (some don't have organs), or doing any work on Sunday. Others have organs and pianos, and may even dabble in praise songs, such as the first song on your video (called "As the Deer Panteth for the Water"). Dress and personal appearance is more casual (slacks, jeans and shorts) and mainstream. They don't see a problem with wives working outside the home, or having jobs that require working on Sunday. Then there are others who favor the NIV and other versions over the KJV, even though that is the official version of the ALC. My grandparents and mother belonged to a small group within the ALC which I think may have called themselves "New Awakenists", and they had their own annual meetings and supported mission work in Finland and elsewhere (if I understand it correctly). Some churches have a Bible camp in Michigan and Minnesota (http://www.lbfbiblecamp.org/), although many in the ALC have probably never heard of it. Some have pastors trained in the seminary, and other churches would never consider it. Some are open to hearing preachers from other churches, others are not. You see a lot of smoking, even among young people, in some churches. In others this would be unheard of.<br><br>Those are some of the differences that I can see, although there are doctrinal differences too, I'm sure. I am not qualified to talk about those things.. I would get in way over my head! lol<br><br>I can see value in all of the different perspectives. Many of the most conservative are so friendly and hospitable, and love to travel and keep in touch. Others (like myself) stay close to home and seem to get involved with work and family and that's as far as it goes.<br><br>There is also a lot of crossover, where you really can't categorize people or congregations. What I am seeing now seems to be a renewed effort to come together in unity, to talk to each other, to increase fellowship among the pastors and congregations. I hope the ALC is successful in this endeavor.<br><br>My husband and I are off to the ALC annual convention in St Cloud Minnesota tomorrow. We are our congregation's delegates. Will have laptop so my internet addiction will be fed while I'm on the road. Oops, did I just say addiction? lolNorahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-28576808458340139282009-07-06T10:38:35.174-07:002009-07-06T10:38:35.174-07:00Hi Free, I hope your husband is doing better and t...Hi Free, I hope your husband is doing better and that you are enjoying your summer! I agree, Tomte is doing a good job!Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-80283188072233171852009-07-06T10:56:59.381-07:002009-07-06T10:56:59.381-07:00"But this is what I observe and hear, and are..."But this is what I observe and hear, and are some examples of differences: Some ALC churches are very conservative, maybe almost like OALC. They are conservative in dress, in music (some don't have organs), or doing any work on Sunday. Others have organs and pianos, and may even dabble in praise songs, such as the first song on your video (called "As the Deer Panteth for the Water")."<br><br>Sounds a lot like ALC here in Finland and Sweden. Generaly ALC:s here are more conservative than LLC, but not as conservative as OALC.<br><br>"Deer Panteth for the Water" would never gå here in Ostrobotnia with laestadians organized in LLF (Laestadianernas Fridsföreningars Förbund), but more liberal minded in the Rauhan Sana group would sing it.<br><br>Funny that you mentioned how conservative some ACL:s are over there. One of my litle sisters was a litle tricky as young, so my parents decided to send her for a month to a conservative ALC family somewhere in US, to learn the fear of God.<br><br>It actually worked! :-)<br><br>(If you click on my Nick, it will take you to a more traditional ALC song)Laestadianinfohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEgRwRBp8snoreply@blogger.com