tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post3740724204478986602..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Speak Up for the ChildrenUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger169125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-8506038783074911132013-05-12T02:32:45.722-07:002013-05-12T02:32:45.722-07:00I would like to reply to these comments by remindi...I would like to reply to these comments by reminding people that there have been many cases of children's lives being ended by many people of no religion who only had a few or less children. Have these been caused by religion? And suicides, how many suidides have been done by people that do not belong to this church? How many children's lives have been taken by members of the LLC over the past years? As an LLC mamber with a large family, our lives have been abundantly blessed through our children who have seen us through many trials, even though at times during raising these children it seemed to be very tough at times. There are many couples that have not been blessed with any children and have desperately wanted a family, and in no way have been ostracized or criticized by the church. Our children have never felt unhappy at the number of siblings they have, and for each new birth of a new baby have had much joy in receiving another bundle of joy in our family to love! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-63514589437607146442013-05-10T21:53:31.891-07:002013-05-10T21:53:31.891-07:00*tangible
left the building*tangible<br /><br />left the buildingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-12242219679145386352013-05-10T21:51:52.164-07:002013-05-10T21:51:52.164-07:00I applied for WIC as well when my children were li...I applied for WIC as well when my children were little, but got no such encouragement from the WIC staff. In fact, they were matter-of-fact and brusque almost to the point of being rude. If I hadn't needed the food, I wouldn't have gone back at all. <br /><br />I heard about it from a neighbor, not a nurse or a county worker. When I moved to a different county, no one said anything about transferring our application. The WIC people in our new area were a lot nicer, but I still was never told these kinds of things. Maybe some people are just more outgoing than others, or more excited than others about the tagible help they could offer families.<br /><br />Your story kind of comes across like you are this helpless mother who just had WIC forced on you willy nilly and you really had no choice in the matter. I'm sure you're not a witless person who just does everything everyone else tells you to do...I would hope not, at least. <br /><br />(this girl has) left the buildingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-9193476293443109632013-05-03T07:48:42.086-07:002013-05-03T07:48:42.086-07:00Brian, I will not attempt to try split verbal hair...Brian, I will not attempt to try split verbal hairs on a blog site. With regards to evil....from what I recall some of the Pharisees/speakers/elders did indeed seem to have an evil intent as they seemed to relish in their ability to manipulate and control people. Of course they themselves did not look on themselves as bad nor did any of their sycophants. But when I heard all the talk about how a person must remain in a 'broken' state and bow down and 'humble themselves before the Word of God' I soon realized that what they really meant was that a person needed to be broken down emotionally and give up their own self in order to remain obedient to the Pharisees & remain in their good standing. The kernel of the evilness is that they said or implied that one had to basically meet their standards in order to go to heaven versus meeting God's standards. When one proclaims themselves to be some type of gatekeeper to Biblical truths then I automatically realize that I am dealing with a bunch of phonies. Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-17187838447792622002013-05-03T07:48:01.933-07:002013-05-03T07:48:01.933-07:00Of course he shouldn't answer questions about ...Of course he shouldn't answer questions about counseling Nina, but why didn't he answer any other the others. Inquiring minds would like to know. To me it appears that the statement that was made is contrary to everything I've ever heard Eric say in his sermons in regards to the issue of birth control. Same with many other ministers.<br /><br />There is no way they'll answer those questions upfront and honestly, because they know how bad the answers would be. "How would the congregation treat a woman who openly used birth control?" We all know what the honest answer to that would be, and the media would be all over it.<br /><br />Deep RootsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74855104907215180982013-05-03T07:38:38.397-07:002013-05-03T07:38:38.397-07:00Google "Cloward-Piven strategy"Google "Cloward-Piven strategy"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-12577151294670236012013-05-03T07:26:46.515-07:002013-05-03T07:26:46.515-07:00Jekida,
I agree, it would have been irresponsible ...Jekida,<br />I agree, it would have been irresponsible and a breach of trust for him to discuss pastoral conversations had with Nina. Even as a mandated reporter, the only people it would have been appropriate for him to talk to would have been the authorities, if he had any idea that she was going to hurt herself or others. To further complicate things, my understanding is that ministers are not mandated reporters in all states. (That does not mean morally he shouldn't report.)<br />brian<br />BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-56253663235492996672013-05-03T06:22:10.414-07:002013-05-03T06:22:10.414-07:00I know some in this thread have talked about the i...I know some in this thread have talked about the irresponsibility of the families who have kids they are not finantially able to handle, and how you are supporting someone you feel you do not deserve to support. I understand the complaint that too many of these families are on government support, and in order to try help you understand why this might be so, I would like to share with you all my experience with WIC. After the birth of our first child, we were told of WIC by the discharge nurse at the hospital, as well as by the county nurse who visited our home in the few days following (standard procedure in our county includes an in-home visit for all brand new mothers as a follow up check to feeding and other health needs/concerns unless you specifically decline it). I'm not sure if we looked poor, or if they tell everyone of this program. Of course, we had heard of it before, and since we were living basically paycheck to paycheck with the arrival of our new baby, I decided to look into it, in case things would become worse for us. The day I went to the WIC office I meant to simply ask questions about how it works and what you get, I never intended to sign up for the program because I felt we were meeting all of our basic needs, plus a small amount more, and although I was worried about what would happen if my husband was hurt and could not work, as long as he was working, we were fine. Somehow I was talked into it, and before I knew it I was leaving the office, WIC cupons in hand.... She used the argument that since I was there looking into it, I was obviously worried about money, and had need of the program. At the time of my initial appointment to ask questions, as well as at every appointment thereafter we were encouraged to look into, and even apply for an EBT card. I wondered why would we, if we are meeting all our needs now? But it sure would have been nice to have that extra money to set aside every month! Who doesnt want that? After a few months I began feeling guilty as I felt we obviously had no need of these cupons because there were many weeks where we only got one or two of the things included on our cupon because those were the only items on our grocery list. I called the WIC office and tried to explain that I wanted to get off the program because I felt we were not really using our cupons, and that they would be better off going to someone with more need than us. We were assured that we were not taking anyone elses money, and encouraged to stay on the program. We ended up using the cupons, and passing the purchases on to a large family in our area (not even from any laestadian sect, by the way) who seemed like they had more need of it than we did. This family already recieved WIC, I'm sure, but still seemed in more need than we did, and the mother was always very grateful to get our items. Soon after, my husband got a new job, one which made more money, but also required us to move. I called again to cancel WIC (obviously we were not going to be there to redeem them) and was strongly encouraged to allow them to simply transfer my application to the new area. I explained that we would be making more money, and was told that that was okay, I should simply fill out a new form proclaiming how much money we were making and submit it to the new WIC office. I was told quite cheerfully and forcefully that "We still might qualify!" I eventually had to say NO, quite firmly, and refuse to tell them the new county I would be moving to. If I had not felt so guilty, it would have been easy to accept the WIC cupons and spend this extra money on items we don't need, or set it aside every month, WIC was so very strongly encouraged upon us! They had a strange way of making you feel like you did actually need the money offered in their programs, and always encouraged you to remain in any program you were already enrolled in.Jekidanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-24716951103067935052013-05-03T03:09:59.935-07:002013-05-03T03:09:59.935-07:00Confused...you are intuitively doing what is best ...Confused...you are intuitively doing what is best for you, your children and your husband, and how can that be wrong. You are leading your life from the inside out, knowing what the cost of following would mean. You are aware. I am sorry for the guilt feelings, the confusion of Not matching what the churches 'preferences' or rules are 'for now'. <br /><br />It simply shows the power of the church and its rules AND the power of women and yet the guilt of doing so. Which is clearly stating how much control they have, that when you deviate from it, how you feel. Like displeasing them or doing bad....while you are doing good for you and yours.<br /><br />My humble and perhaps simple advice is to be aware.<br /><br />Be aware of how your life looks from your point of view and then perhaps from their (church) point of view.<br /><br />Be aware of the affects of the choices you make or don't make and how or who it affects.<br /><br />Being an aware woman, who sees and protects her health, her mental wellness as well as knowing personally what she can and cannot handle is the roots of being a strong empowered woman. <br /><br />And, I believe ultimately you always will find the answers for your life within.<br />You are the expert and the one who knows what you need to do.<br /><br />I love that you are authentically speaking of what you do and what you are believing is 'wrong' to do. How you articulate the differences between what you know is right for you and gap between the church elders. <br /><br />Thank you for being you.<br />Beth JukuriAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-87952055270682656952013-05-02T22:32:24.782-07:002013-05-02T22:32:24.782-07:00Thank you Free. After looking at the questions, an...Thank you Free. After looking at the questions, and reviewing the answer, I do feel as though Eric, in a very basic way, answered many of the questions. There are some of the ones specifically about Nina, which he chose not to get into detail about, but which of us honestly would have done things differently? Maybe a few, but probably not the majority.Jekidanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-91498396729445832672013-05-02T22:19:25.718-07:002013-05-02T22:19:25.718-07:00Confused- I hope that you are able to find peace w...Confused- I hope that you are able to find peace with your decision to use birth control. Mental health should also be taken into account, and if you find yourself in a situation where people are questioning why you have not had more kids, you can simply state that God has not provided. I understand peoples confusions as to the differences between the SRK and the LLC, and feel that a lot of that comes in cultural differences. I have always been confused when people say that we believe that you can never use birth control, as I have always been under the understanding that it is okay in certain situations. I know there are extreme sermons where it seems as if they are saying that you should never use it, but I have always understood that the health of the mother does have a role.Jekidanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-10640690285525719452013-05-02T22:17:35.483-07:002013-05-02T22:17:35.483-07:00Hi Jekida,
The questions are included in the inter...Hi Jekida,<br />The questions are included in the interview article <a href="http://www.kpho.com/story/22102615/ex-member-church-has-blood-on-its-hands-in-death-of-6-day-old?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=8820739" rel="nofollow">here.</a>Freehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14779418481668841114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-16905213155469041362013-05-02T22:10:40.932-07:002013-05-02T22:10:40.932-07:00I am wondering if anyone has a list of the questio...I am wondering if anyone has a list of the questions which were posed to Eric? I just want to caution that we do not know what was asked, and if they were truely personal questions as to what occured behind closed doors in private meetings with the ministers, would you have done anything different than Eric? I believe it is only for the family to talk of these things unless it is causing immediate harm to someone or falls under the category of mandated reporting.Jekidanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-34083577449280454652013-05-02T18:33:44.673-07:002013-05-02T18:33:44.673-07:00Old AP,
Doesn't "evil" imply intent?...Old AP,<br />Doesn't "evil" imply intent?<br />brianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-11640627144826379502013-05-02T18:23:44.891-07:002013-05-02T18:23:44.891-07:00Using birth control in the LLC is definitely somet...Using birth control in the LLC is definitely something one must keep secret. I'm on it now because I can't handle anymore kids. I don't no what we'll do when people start asking and gossiping about us not having any more children. Maybe leave, but I don't really want to.<br /><br />A minister told my husband and me that using birth control was the same as taking a sip of alcohol. When you do it, your pretty much instantly giving up your faith by what you do. My friend told me that in Finland many people use birth control and the SRK thinks very different on birth control than the LLC. I thought faith was the same in here and in Finland and has been unchanged forever. I tried to find something in the Bible that says you can't use birth control and I couldn't find anything. I'd ask a minister about that, but I don't dare do it because I don't want anyone to start thinking I'm on birth control.<br /><br />Why don't the church answer any of the questions that the reporter asked? My friends are wondering about this to. Its been clear to me my whole life that birth control is wrong and something that believers do not do at all. I've had lots of guilt about using it myself, but I want to protect my mind, even though I worry a little about dying when I'm on it. Its worth it for my kids and husband. But now it seems this is changing because hard questions are being asked by unbelievers? What does our faith mean when ministers change their positions because of one reporter? If birth control is now okay, I want to know so I can free myself from this guilt I have. But if that's true, what about everything else? It bothers me that there are no straight answers for anything unless its to tell you not to do something.<br /><br />Very Confused And Wishing For AnswersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-11491625869659743062013-05-02T18:21:32.442-07:002013-05-02T18:21:32.442-07:00No moniker yet....it might take some time to sort ...No moniker yet....it might take some time to sort out just what you actually believe inside versus what you were expected to believe. You said, "If you would have told me things about the church when I was a member, I never would have believed you, but it is absolutely brainwashing, not in an evil way..." I would disagree with you when you say that the brainwashing within Laestadianism is not evil. The evilness is that they use a dialectical approach using a truth by omission approach mingling 90% truthfulness with 10% falsehoods to try to lead congregants to a religious foundation based on the church status quo versus a Biblical foundation of faith. Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-15236084911010921152013-05-02T12:49:49.782-07:002013-05-02T12:49:49.782-07:00I am a current member of the LLC. Within my extend...I am a current member of the LLC. Within my extended family 3 families have chosen to limit the size of their families due to health concerns relating to the mother. This is done primarily in secret. One does not have the freedom to make it public knowledge out of fear of retribution. If there are so many cases within my relations, surely the issue is prevalent among many who are presently members.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-57873974213073201432013-05-02T11:03:17.567-07:002013-05-02T11:03:17.567-07:00Well, I think that's good of you. I hope also ...Well, I think that's good of you. I hope also you don't ostracize, gossip about or mock a woman behind her back should she decide to take control of her life planning and sexuality for herself. Thanks for stopping by, Joyfully, and here's to a healthy seventh baby!FreeThinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-38904154371404632522013-05-02T10:48:13.352-07:002013-05-02T10:48:13.352-07:00No FreeThinker I will not. I am going to let God b...No FreeThinker I will not. I am going to let God be the judge and remind you and I that neither of us have the power to do that. He knows our hearts. Now I joyfully leave this conversation! JoyfullyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-65607546910016672532013-05-02T10:08:07.048-07:002013-05-02T10:08:07.048-07:00Free,
Thank you for posting the information of ho...Free, <br />Thank you for posting the information of how one can support the family by way of donation. This has touched so many far and wide! No matter our walks of life, or how we believe, it is comforting to know that we can come together to help those in need. I think we are all in unison when we say that we pray god protects this family!<br />Thank you, Jenny kuoppalaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-85327087395186347402013-05-02T09:58:52.154-07:002013-05-02T09:58:52.154-07:00I am a current member of the LLC and I believe the...I am a current member of the LLC and I believe the health of the mother, whether it be mental or physical, should definately be taken into account. I know there are many others within the faith that feel the same way.<br />-mother of 5Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-62213910359285167042013-05-02T09:18:40.010-07:002013-05-02T09:18:40.010-07:00I don't know, Joyfully, will they? Will you ki...I don't know, Joyfully, will they? Will you kick them out if they decide they want to stay in faith, but use birth control?<br />FreeThinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-77862035079541235362013-05-02T09:14:47.647-07:002013-05-02T09:14:47.647-07:00then the women will no longer be members of the ch...then the women will no longer be members of the church then will they? This is What we truly believe and I find it hard that this can't be respected. I also think slavery and this topic don't even compare. Joyfully waitingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-9263487609042038192013-05-02T08:15:39.241-07:002013-05-02T08:15:39.241-07:00Eric Jurmu has replied to the KPHO reporter.
http...Eric Jurmu has replied to the KPHO reporter.<br /><br />http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kpho/KPHO%20NEWS/PLLresponse.pdf<br /><br />Some thoughts. 1) a masterfully written press release/propaganda/CYA piece, in many respects. Say little on specifics, put your best face forth, defer to the Mother.<br /><br />2) The only small piece of solace for many of us is that it *might* be tiny step in the right direction. "Childbearing questions vary greatly and are private matters, and we cannot give answers to cover all situations." At least it's in writing that the "Pop-Til-You-Drop-Or-Die" rule isn't hard and fast.FreeThinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-22216527490575015462013-05-02T07:07:00.323-07:002013-05-02T07:07:00.323-07:00Maybe it was already mentioned here but the Phoeni...Maybe it was already mentioned here but the Phoenix LLC website has information about a fund you can donate to for the family. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com