tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post2415861870262080452..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Parking Lots and TeensUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-82844843386322426572008-07-18T16:49:00.000-07:002008-07-18T16:49:00.000-07:00If they cant smoke on their church property, then ...If they cant smoke on their church property, then obviously is became a sin for them to smoke. Do the youth or others pay heed to the elders anymore? I for one find this baffling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-5521515873359422062008-07-18T20:50:00.000-07:002008-07-18T20:50:00.000-07:00Flash back to the 1980's...I find myself at th...Flash back to the 1980's...I find myself at the Hazel Dell Drive-Inn Theatre...back when it was still open. I had left the OALC several years before. Actually, I left the day I was confirmed. I knew that the OALC doctrine as NOT for me. Anyway, at the drive-in, a OALC member approached me and told me that I was going to HELL for being at the drive-inn and drinking a beer. He didn't seem to realize that he was at the same place I was and also had beer on his breath. This reinforced my issue with OALC'ers having double standards. This whole incident really re-inforced my decision to leave.<br><br>The OALC teens and young adults are still the same today. They belive they are untouchable and display the same shallow-mindedness and disrespectfullness as the teens of my youth.<br><br>I am soooo glad I left! I can only hope I can be a positive example to my neices and nephews who have been raised within the OALC!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-33672582384068542662008-07-21T11:00:00.000-07:002008-07-21T11:00:00.000-07:00This is not related to the post, but just a questi...This is not related to the post, but just a question...why can I not see the rest of the blog in IE? I can only see the most recent post, and not even all of that.<br><br>I have to use a Mozilla browser to see the comment link and the rest of the blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-63449595900227560702008-07-21T11:07:00.000-07:002008-07-21T11:07:00.000-07:00How frustrating! This appears to be a compatibilit...How frustrating! This appears to be a compatibility problem with Internet Explorer (IE users are only able to view the first post). I will complain to Blogger but meanwhile, please download a free copy of Firefox <a href="http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-66678896311293894912008-07-21T14:20:00.000-07:002008-07-21T14:20:00.000-07:00I agree. Free, I found Mozilla will do the trick,...I agree. Free, I found Mozilla will do the trick, but if folks don't figure it out by themselves, they can't see the instructions since the only thing showing in IE is the main topic post -- no comments.cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07542845394936520037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-27872956478378096632008-07-21T17:24:00.000-07:002008-07-21T17:24:00.000-07:00How strange, the incompatibility seems to only hav...How strange, the incompatibility seems to only have occurred for me as of this past weekend? Does this mean I will have to use Firefox to view your site, but my msn is still allright for my other web stuff?hp3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-58398053911206171572008-07-21T17:50:00.000-07:002008-07-21T17:50:00.000-07:00In my experience growing up in the Brush Prairie o...In my experience growing up in the Brush Prairie oalc, and hanging around big and bad Battle Ground ;) I remember the list of do's and dont's to be very intimidating. We were in our natural stage of questioning life and trying to figure things out and to have all that inconsequential stuff piled on... with such weighty soul consequences... well it just brought out the rebel in me :) Whats so strange though, is what we would do to be rebellious... littering & tobacco, speeding or acting superior to 'worldlies' or someone from the church but outside our particular group.<br><br>Well those were things that hadnt been put on the "go to hell" list, but they were still wrong to most people, so they seemed easier to do than trying to rebel by wearing makeup or trying to grow a scraggly beard, or heaven forbid - asking questions. THis way we just received a frown, rather than a lecture about hell. We could 'assert' ourselves and in some weird, small way claim to be an individual in our world. Not follow the rules, but not get into too much trouble. After all, a frown from a 'mere worldly' was ok. We didnt have to answer to them, we were God's chosen people and all we had to worry about was not going to hell over stuff that " really mattered" like not getting caught listening to music or having bangs or the wrong length of a skirt.<br><br>Now dont get me wrong here, Im not condoning thier actions and something still neEDs to be done. Just some insight that came to mind. It cant really be handled in the usual way, because thier thought process for justifying that behavior may be different than the average teen. Maybe... I dont know. I guess I didnt know too many 'average teens' when I was a teen.hp3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-19402829277698516512008-07-22T12:58:00.000-07:002008-07-22T12:58:00.000-07:00I love your perspective, hp3. Very insightful. ...I love your perspective, hp3. Very insightful. MTHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-30167864074047528222008-07-24T12:13:00.000-07:002008-07-24T12:13:00.000-07:00I think there's a larger problem here: child l...I think there's a larger problem here: child labor laws.<br><br>While they were well-intentioned to stop children from being forced to work in dangerous factories, the laws now make it prohibitive for employers to hire teens. The paperwork alone is too much of a burden for many small businesses owners. Plus, what kids can do is so restrictive, from being able to work only a couple hours a day during certain hours to strict limits on the equipment they can operate. (For example, under the law, a cordless drill may be off limits, but a swinging a long, razor-sharp knife or machete at a Christmas tree is not.)<br><br>It used to be, too, that kids had chores around the home & farm. With the disappearance of small farms, and modern construction that requires little maintenance, convenient & cheap foods (no more backyard gardens or long meal preps) there just isn't that much to keep a kid at home.<br><br>Right now our standard of living is high enough that a single income earner can comfortably support a family (and when both parents work they really shine). The teens don't <i>need</i> to find a job to help support the family and their own wants & wishes.<br><br>So since it's so hard (& not really necessary) for kids these days to find a job, they are left with "nothing to do." Unlike other kids in the community, OALCers aren't allowed to go to movies or watch sporting events; stuff everybody else does in the evening to stay out of trouble. This means that all they have to do is hang out with their friends and get into mischief.il Coronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-16567993004847929992008-07-24T12:39:00.000-07:002008-07-24T12:39:00.000-07:00Where there any additional comments in this weeks ...Where there any additional comments in this weeks Reflector?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-76699079199480579002008-07-24T17:59:00.000-07:002008-07-24T17:59:00.000-07:00to anon 12: 13No, but I was looking for some.to anon 12: 13<br><br>No, but I was looking for some.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-12043830987694410132008-07-25T11:53:00.000-07:002008-07-25T11:53:00.000-07:00Before anybody jumps on me... I'm not defendin...Before anybody jumps on me... I'm not defending the youth or excusing the problem.<br><br>I'm only trying to point out that with societal issues, like medical issues, the symptom is rarely the problem. Attacking or proposing a solution to the symptom will never solve the problem -- you must dig deeper to find the root cause.<br><br>As another poster said, idle hands are the devil's workshop. Here, we have a group of youth who are prevented from doing what their parents would have them do (work) by society (to "save the children"), and are prevented from doing what society would have them do (sports, entertainment) by their church (to "save them from the world"). They have no chores and they can't get jobs. What's left for them to do besides hang out in the FM parking lot? Fred Meyer can't even hand them brooms and tell them to start sweeping!il Coronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-34490384539017651982008-07-25T14:05:00.000-07:002008-07-25T14:05:00.000-07:00il coro: I think you have a great and very valid p...il coro: I think you have a great and very valid point. There is not much else these kids can do. But since Im no longer in the church, I am really not sure what some solutions may be. My solution was to do things differently, but that included attending church elsewhere and believing differently...<br><br>My kids have chores they alone are responsible for, we also have family chores that we do together and they already have to 'earn' prizes and things they want. They sometimes 'complain' that thier friends dont have to do as much if anything, but we then have a discussion about 'the real world' and how the things they have to do now are life lessons for later :p Im such a mean parent!hp3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-26702044610985331832008-07-25T20:07:00.000-07:002008-07-25T20:07:00.000-07:00Can OALC kids play sports? Not school teams, but ...Can OALC kids play sports? Not school teams, but can they go play some baseball with each other?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-89296893694535970082008-07-25T23:34:00.000-07:002008-07-25T23:34:00.000-07:00Unfortunately, the answer will vary greatly depend...Unfortunately, the answer will vary greatly depending on which particular branch of LLL you ask, which particular locality within a particular branch, and even vary depending on which family you ask. And they will maddenly still insist they are all the same :p<br><br>In the Brush Prairie congregation where I spent much of my time in the OALC, it was preached that organized sports were sin. We could play among ourselves, but it couldnt be 'organized.' I remember being told that if we 'just happended' to have a ball in someones car and 'just happened' to get it out when there were a group together, then it was ok, but we couldnt plan to meet and play; volleyball was really popular. <br><br>Getting together unsupervised was discouraged, its best if the preachers were there too, so it was a "gathering" which meant all the young kids would meet at someones house and set and listen to another serman. (Its supposed to be a time to ask questions too, and sometimes they will go around to see what others think, but in the end there is only one right answer which the preachers will tell you. Then you feel stupid for 'getting it wrong.') <br><br>Gatherings were ok on Sunday, but it was sin to to do anything else on Sundays. So we really werent supposed to get together "and be idle" but gatherins were just antoher serman... so yah, not much we could do without it being a sin. Fred Meyer parking lot is starting to look pretty good after awhile... Im sure the kids are just as frustrated as the customers...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-14399887295603497592008-07-25T23:37:00.000-07:002008-07-25T23:37:00.000-07:00Oh, and the other maddening part (about the church...Oh, and the other maddening part (about the church that 'never changes') is that what I experienced could be different because the 'rules' change over time, so each generation has different experiences. My experiences were about in the late 90's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74322564729212039262008-07-26T09:42:00.000-07:002008-07-26T09:42:00.000-07:00I have a baseball team picture taken about 1935 in...I have a baseball team picture taken about 1935 in Battle Ground. Two of the team members are also staunch members of the OALC. Back then it must have been considered OK, because they would not have gone against the rules of the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-19266868500013916892008-07-27T23:59:00.000-07:002008-07-27T23:59:00.000-07:00Has Lewisville Park been preached as a sin yet? At...Has Lewisville Park been preached as a sin yet? At leas some years back it used to be quite popular to go there and it also used to be quite common that someone "happened" to have a volley ball in their car. ;) <br><br>By the way, if the reason why it's considered sort of inappropriate to play sports on a Sunday is that you get sweaty or that you have to take your shirt off or something, maybe they should import a game called "mölkky" from Finland. It's very popular among the OALC kids over here (not uncommon among adults either). It's described over here: <br><br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6lkky <br><br>It keeps you busy but doesn't make you too sweaty so you should be able to play it even in your Sunday clothes! :)<br><br>HibernatusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-26900292471161642472008-07-28T12:46:00.000-07:002008-07-28T12:46:00.000-07:00To Hibernatus,Sports was preached as sin in my old...To Hibernatus,<br>Sports was preached as sin in my old OALC congregation because they said that the sports competition fostered hard feelings and disagreements. It wasn't just banned on Sunday and had nothing to do with sweaty clothes!<br><br>An interesting note is that 20 odd years ago we OALCers used to gather and play softball! The whole church would turn out and we had fun! This same church today bans all sports and is a sad remnant of what it used to be!4eyesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-40894166397886901352008-07-28T12:54:00.000-07:002008-07-28T12:54:00.000-07:00mölkky sounds like bowling only without a ball!Gee...mölkky sounds like bowling only without a ball!<br><br>Gee, I thought the Finns had discovered the ball by now! ;).4eyesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-17986142659502774632008-07-28T13:19:00.000-07:002008-07-28T13:19:00.000-07:00Its too bad they have to look at the negative side...Its too bad they have to look at the negative side of sports. Kids can learn alot from sports, sportsmanship, teamwork, and discipline. And have some fun! I think parents just need to teach their kids to win humbly and lose with their head up. You win some, you lose some. As long as you did your best and did it with honor. Theres a great Christian movie called, "Facing The Giants". Its about a high school football team. Very good movie about faith and Christ in a football team.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-50387881505429541702008-07-28T13:58:00.000-07:002008-07-28T13:58:00.000-07:00RWB here...First, I have been to many of the OALC ...RWB here...<br><br>First, I have been to many of the OALC localities or have friends and relatives in all of them. None, to my knowledge, BAN all sports. <br><br>In my lifetime, organized sports have always been preached as something we (OALC) should stay away from...not as sin. We have this thing called the telephone patch where we hear sermons from other OALC churches all the time so I know that it is the same from place to place...at least as far as I have heard it. Anyway, it is the stuff that comes along with these sports that is sin. Sports on Sunday should be avoided. In reality, some kids go to the beach and play volleyball (or some other sport) together...yes even on Sundays this happens...we ain't purrrrfekt... <br><br>I'm not that old, but back in 1935 baseball and other games were probably decent, respectable activities, even in the organized leagues. Most of the organized sports now is beer league stuff with cursing and fighting mixed in. I checked out a "church" league one time and was surprised how intense the games were with arguements, hostility, cussing, and some apparent hard feelings, maybe even more so than the beer league....beer league stuff minus the beer. Some of the beer drinking in the church league was done after the game...not during it. Oh yeah, and the tournaments or playoffs were held on Sunday afternoons.<br><br>Sports used to be about fun, teamwork, leadership, and comraderie. While they still hold some of those values, they have become more about false honor, pride, and glory. It seems every week we see another news story where some parent goes berzerk at a tee ball game because little Joey's stats were falling off because the coach wasn't letting him bat every 4th time. The sometimes not-so-tame hazing rituals exist in every high school sports program I know of. Many parties are held and associated with these team sports where sometimes even the parents provide alcohol in a "controlled" environ. Professional athletes as positive role models for the youth almost don't exist anymore, but kids still look up to them. It's easy for me to see why the things associated with organized sports are not a good place for a christian to be, but that's just me. There are positives to sports than can be had outside the organized realm and many kids partake in unorganized sports with others neighborhood kids and church kids alike.<br><br>So maybe hangin' out in the FM parking lot isn't such a bad thing, but these kids need to correct their behavior because it appears to have gotten out of hand there. This sheds a bad light on our church (OALC) and is not indicative of what we teach or preach....kids anywhere will make the wrong decisions more often than not. They need to be told that what they are doing is wrong and that would be the end of it.<br><br>Smoking: Less and less kids/teens across the board are smoking these days and this goes for the OALC to. When I was a teen it was nothing to see a couple hundred teens light up after church. In some places (BG) you can't smoke at church...it has nothing to do with sin....just a grounds keeping issue...that's why these kids at FM should (hopefully) get the hint that if it's not OK to toss your butts or other things on the grounds at church, it isn't OK anywhere else. In other places where smoking is allowed at church there is usually a designated place for it and I don't see very many that smoke anymore. I will go out on a limb here and say that if smoking was invented today and we knew all the harmful things about it that we now know it would be taught as something we should avoid...guess we got that one wrong...but it is slowly going by the wayside. The same goes for the government, but being the cash cow it is for them they will never be able to ban it...no way the revenue could be replaced....guess they got it wrong too.<br><br>RWBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-11096799908749841302008-07-28T14:05:00.000-07:002008-07-28T14:05:00.000-07:00The sports thing has always varied apparently comm...The sports thing has always varied apparently community to community. In my home community in the 1950s and 60s, many (at times, most) of the OALC kids, girls and boys, participated in school sports and community sports. Shucks, I've got the pictures to prove it, with even some of the current crop of preachers in basketball, football, and track uniforms. I was quite happy to play with some of them and root for others, as they were pretty good athletes!<br><br>I have never understood why there was anything wrong with playing sports. Why is it wrong to play baseball or football, but ok to hunt and fish? (Oh don't tell me that hunting and fishing is to put food on the table! As a very successful hunter/fisherman, I can assure you the supermarket version of food is a lot cheaper!) Is it the competition aspect? I think we compete in one way or another trhoughout life, and don't see that as a particular problem either. As a matter of fact, it is probably in those youth sports that we learn things about honor, and playing fair, and that winning is not everything.cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07542845394936520037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-68780648737269984622008-07-28T15:53:00.000-07:002008-07-28T15:53:00.000-07:004eyes, I am SOOO curious about what part of the co...4eyes, I am SOOO curious about what part of the country you are from. Most communities are growing (from runaway procreation) so there are not too many that are "sad remnants." MTHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-23923734804473630732008-07-28T23:42:00.000-07:002008-07-28T23:42:00.000-07:004eyes, I agree mölkky has some similarities with g...4eyes, I agree mölkky has some similarities with golf - sports without really being sports ;) It's even more similar to the French pétanque, but still the difference is that the Finnish game doesn't use balls while the French one does. I guess they are right about the Finns not being civilized people... :) <br><br>HibernatusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com